Transcript: Nymphing Essentials with Jason Randall Pt IV
Transcript
Marvin:
[0:04] Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly, and we're back with the final episode of Ninthing Essentials with Jason Randall, our Q&A session. Jason, how are you doing?
Jason:
[0:14] I'm doing really good, Marvin. How are you doing?
Marvin:
[0:17] I'm just trying to stay out of trouble, and maybe a mule awaits me at the end of our recording session.
Jason:
[0:23] Marvin, every time I ask you how you're doing, you always say, I'm trying to stay out of trouble.
Get in a lot of trouble. There must be a confession here.
Marvin:
[0:33] It's a perpetual state of aspiration, Jason.
Jason:
[0:38] Oh man, I think you're there.
Marvin:
[0:40] There you go. And so, you know, before we kind of drop in, and first of all, I want to thank everyone.
We had a ton of questions, and we tried to use as many as we could, but obviously we couldn't use everyone's question, but we super appreciate everyone that sent a question in.
And kind of before we kind of dive into the Q&A stuff, you want to kind of, Jason, kind of recap the kind of the three areas that we've covered, Maybe folks, if they wanna look at one of those, they can go back and listen to one of the old episodes.
Jason:
[1:04] Yeah, you bet. We've defined in the course of this podcast and also the content that I enjoy teaching, we know that there are three main objectives that we have to reach to be successful Nymph anglers.
First and foremost, we've gotta get our flies to the level where the trout are feeding, and we call that the strike zone.
Now, the strike zone is different in fast water compared to slow water.
In fast water, it's gonna be compressed to the bottom and slow water, it may open up from top to bottom.
[1:40] And that dictates our niffing style and also dictates our rigging style.
The second objective that we have to achieve is to get a good presentation.
That means that we need to get our drift speed appropriate to the speed of the strike zone, especially in medium and faster water where that strike zone is compressed at the bottom.
We know that it's also moving at half speed relative to the current that goes overhead.
So slowing that drift down and getting an appropriate drift speed is gonna give us the best presentation for a dead drift.
And then the third objective that we have to get is having a better means of strike detection. We know that flotation devices and large plastic indicators are letting us down.
Most anglers are aware that they're missing more fish than they're creating and getting an improved method, a more accurate method of strike detection is that third objective.
If we meet those three objectives, we're gonna have more success as NIV bankers.
Marvin:
[2:50] And it's a perfect segue into Russell's question. And his question for us is, How does uronithing help us improve success in those three areas.
Jason:
[3:01] Well, it's probably the most effective method to reach those three goals, and so it's going to give us the best chance of, I think, catching fish, the most success, when it's appropriate.
Now not every stretch of water is suitable for urodymphing, but because it does cut through surface overhead currents and allow our flies to track in the strike zone at the appropriate speed.
And it also gives us a very direct linear connection to those flies.
It really does reach those three objectives more easily, I think, with fewer corrections than most other methods of nib fangling.
Marvin:
[3:45] Yeah. And that tension in that rig is what makes the strike detection so much better, right?
Jason:
[3:51] Correct, and the whole mantra now in uronymphing is thin to win, and what that allows us to do, we can cut through those surface currents more effectively with a thinner tippet material, allowing us to maintain contact and achieve drift speed with less weight in our flies, which is a more natural situation as well.
So once again, that direct linear connection contact nymphing really allows us to have accurate strike detection as well.
Marvin:
[4:23] Yeah, it's pretty amazing. I mean, when you start playing around with 6 and 7x, it's amazing how little weight you need and like a pertigon to get it to drop like a stone.
Jason:
[4:33] You're right, Marvin. That's true. And that brings us to flies and fly design, too.
We're seeing flies that are drag-busting flies.
They sink quickly like Predagons, they get to the strike zone, they stay there cutting through the current with those microliters and new concepts in fly design has really improved our nymphing success as well.
Marvin:
[4:55] Yeah, and you know Tay had a follow-up question and wanted to know, you know, if you want to do urine nymphing, do you need to run out and buy, you know, an 11-foot urine nymphing rod or, you know, can they use a nine-foot-five weight?
Jason:
[5:10] Well, I have to probably say my preferred uronymphing rod is only 10 feet, but you can use any rod that you have.
I think it's certainly there'll be some limitations to shorter rods as far as reach and drift management and some things like that.
The sensitivity of uronymphing rods is specifically designed to really perform in uronymphing, as other rods may be less adaptable, less suitable to that.
But certainly you can use any rod. And as you experiment with this technique and get used to it, I think using whatever you have is important.
But I think more important, if you're going to get into this, is maybe just getting a good leader that has the characteristics that we need to achieve those three goals more effectively.
Marvin:
[6:09] Yeah, do you have a favorite leader flavor? I mean, I know when I started out, I think I took, you know, Devin Olson back in the day had the basically the thin, thinner, thinnest system with the Maxima Chameleon.
And that was kind of what I started with. And you know, what he basically said was, you know, if you're using a shorter, you can kind of quote non-neuronymping rod, you'd basically just chop that leader down and not have as much butt Maxima.
But do you have a favorite go-to leader now? Because I know companies are making basically pre-made uronithing leaders.
Jason:
[6:41] I do, and certainly there's a lot of commercial, commercially produced leaders that are very, very good.
But I think the key characteristics that you need to look for in whether you make your own or whether you buy one commercially available is just getting that fluorocarbon, carbon, whatever is going to be in the water or underwater, to be level and thin.
I've reduced the amount of different components or size changes in my leader. It's very simple.
It is some type of an upper leader material, which could be even cider material that you can get commercially from scientific anglers that you can go down from your fly line to a tippet ring, and then below the tippet ring, I'm usually using scientific egg, whether it's 6X or 7X fluorocarbon, and oftentimes I'm putting a marker somewhere in that fluorocarbon to serve as a sider.
Marker could be Scafars, or it could be a dry application paint, something along those lines. But my leaders are a lot more simple than they used to be. And I think, you know, I think.
The main thing to consider is reducing the number of knots that.
[8:10] Have to come in and out of your easily to shoot out, and put me right back in the water again. So that's my main philosophy is simple and thin, I think, is the most important thing.
Marvin:
[8:35] Yeah, and we're talking about using fluoro, right? Because it's stronger kind of by diameter.
It's really abrasion resistant. And it's also has an index of refraction, right? That's closer to water. So there's no shimmer for the fish to see in the water column. right?
Jason:
[8:50] Yep, I think all those things are true.
Marvin:
[8:52] Yeah, and you mentioned the Sculphar, uh, and just for folks that don't know, that's, um, it's like chapsticks with different colors of wax, right?
And, uh, right. You just wax your leader with it and keep it in your shirt pocket.
Don't leave it in your car cause it'll melt. I've done it.
Jason:
[9:07] So, uh, don't leave it on the dash.
Marvin:
[9:09] Yeah. And so, but I think you can get it in all, I think you can get it like hot pink, yellow, white, white.
Interestingly enough is a really good contrast color too. So, um, if you have questions about that folks just hit us up. And, you know, the next kind of set of questions, Jason, we got quite a few rigging questions.
And I would say they talk about kind of, I guess, several flavors of ice cream.
And I'll just kind of lay them all out together and we can kind of pick them apart. You know, one is, you know, how do you like to attach your droppers?
And I think that's talking about, you know, knots. And then I think the other one is really location of flies on a rig in terms of like where do you put the heavy fly where do you put the lighter flies so you want to kind of start digging into that?
Jason:
[9:54] You bet let's just start at the top though and talk about when to use one fly rigs and when to use two fly rigs.
I use probably 50-50 one fly versus two fly.
When there is complexity to the current a lot of different small seams, pocket water, any time it's really hard to get two flies to drift in the same current seam at the same speed, I'll use one fly.
Pocket water is a classic example. That's a crisscross of different currents going in different directions every few inches below the surface.
[10:33] And having one fly going one direction, another fly going another direction is really counterproductive to getting a good drift for either fly.
So in those situations where there's a lot of complexity to the current or crisscrossing currents or variation in currents. I'll use one slide.
When I'm using two flies, there may be more uniformity to flow, and it's easier for us to get both flies drifting at the same speed.
What I'll do then, my rigging when I'm using two flies, is all based on understanding the nature of the strike zone.
So, in fast water, when that strike zone is compressed to the very bottom, maybe the bottom 20 percent of the vertical water column, I want both flies to be beneath that layer that separates that 20 percent.
And so, typically, and again, this goes back to some of the earlier jack-and-polish systems of nymph fishing, I will usually put a heavier fly in the upper dropper position, and then I'll trail a less weighted fly, because that heavier fly will then carry both flies below that slip seam that separates the strike zone from the faster water overhead.
[11:55] And that way I know that I have both flies in the strike zone, because if I'm tight, where I have tension to my heavier fly, that heavier fly being the upper dropper cuts through the current and allows that point fly then that is slightly less weighted to be in the strike zone as well.
If I rigged the opposite way in fast water with my heaviest fly as my point fly and I'm tight to that or tense to that fly, that means my upper dropper is in mid current facing the fastest water. and, the fish may be less likely to come up through that heavy current to take that dropper.
[12:38] So, that's my rigging for fast water. The anchor fly, or my heavier of the two flies, would be in the dropper position.
And that's done from, oh, you can attach it several different ways.
You can do an overhand double or triple surgeons knot. You can do a blood knot with one one tag shorter and the point fly longer.
The point fly may be anywhere between 15 and 20 inches is typical.
[13:07] You can use a tippet ring there as well. And so, I don't do a linear connection where flies are attached to the preceding fly either at the hook shank or the eye of the hook.
All my flies that I'm fishing would be, you know, free and unrestricted with no other point of attachment.
Now when I rig for slower water, understanding the nature of the strike zone again, knowing that as that water slows to medium and slower speeds, that strike zone opens up.
And so covering that strike zone with my fly position becomes important.
And knowing that they will feed in mid-current and slower water, my point fly then becomes to my heavier of the two flies, my upper dropper would be slightly weighted or unweighted.
[14:03] And again, during the drift or presentation, I'm going to be tense to that heavier fly, which means my upper dropper will be pulled up into mid-current, which is okay, because that is covering the strike zone. interesting enough.
Some, you know, some new ideas and innovations of this, you know, have really discussed.
Dave Whitlock was key on this, as putting not only, you know, the right weight in different positions, but also putting the right life stage in different positions.
He would take a caddis larvae with a heavier weight, put it on the point fly, then he would put an intermediate emerger then as a dropper, so that it looks like the larvae at the bottom and then is in the act of emerging and coming up through the column to go to the surface.
So kind of cool, putting the right life stage at the right depth, and then also waiting the flies accordingly.
Marvin:
[15:02] Yeah, and so one quick question there. So do you like, are you tying like a knot that's snug to the eye of your flies or do you like a loop knot on your flies?
Jason:
[15:13] Most of the time, I'm tying a 16-20 knot to my flies.
I like that knot because it's easy to tie. I could even tie it with a 6-7X smaller material that can sometimes challenge my eyes and fingers at this age.
I can usually tie that knot pretty proficiently, but the thing I like about it is it's got great knot security, but it literally disappears.
It's such a small profile knot that even on small flies like size 16, 18s, and 20s, it doesn't dominate the fly itself, whereas maybe an improved clinch or something like that, that looks like a hangman's noose, when I tie it to a really, really small fly, I really just see the knot.
Marvin:
[16:01] Yeah, you've added 50% to the length of the fly, right? Right. Yeah, and so Jason, I have a question from Jason really kind of around all things fly selection and kind of wanted to get your thoughts on styles of fly as well as kind kind of the natural versus the attractor angle of that as well.
Jason:
[16:19] Sure, you bet. Well, I think it's important when there is a large-scale insect activity to match the hatch, or at least use that basic philosophy.
But when we're nymph fishing, usually it's because there is no specific event that would normally tighten the trout's feeding focus to maybe only one single prey selection.
And so when we're nymph fishing, the fish themselves might be feeding on a wide variety of different food types drifting in the stream at that point.
And so I think our fly selection is a lot broader. And that's why I think particularly in nymph fishing that presentation trumps fly selection.
I think you'll catch more fish with the right presentation of the wrong fly than you will choosing the very best fly but presenting it poorly.
And so I think it's more how we present it than the fly we choose.
So as a result, more of my flies are maybe suggestive rather than imitative.
[17:34] Patterns in impressionistic flies are much more common. I like hot spots in them, I like peregons.
If I look and open up my fly box, I probably only have of my commonly used nymphs maybe six or eight patterns, but they're all organized by different depths.
I change flies more for weight to achieve goal number one than I do for changing it to a different species.
So, a lot of my flies are attractors and something that would maybe be more suggestive than strictly imitative. Yeah.
Marvin:
[18:13] And it kind of helped folks with that on that organization thing because I think that's a big deal, right? Because the less time you spend rummaging around in your gear, the more time you can fish.
Do you organize and do you know kind of the weights because you're looking at the size of the bead?
Or I know like some people will put a different color thread collar to basically denote either you know, flies that have lead in the body as well as a bead or different weights.
Jason:
[18:39] I've heard that too. I'm not probably that organized. Yeah, mine is just kind of organized by rows.
I do have a lot of lead underbody since a lot of these flies, just to give me that little extra when I need it.
Yeah, mine are more or less organized that way. I typically only have a handful of patterns.
But again, I think it's more important how we present that fly.
And back to that original question of why does uronymphing work, because it does give me control over that presentation of those flies.
If I'm not getting a good response on a dead drift, I'll try, because of the short range usually involved in uronymphing, I'll try to add a little bit of jig animation.
I'll try to swing it out and let it rise like an emerging insect.
There's so much that you can do in presentation that I think we really need to focus on that.
Marvin:
[19:46] Yeah, it's interesting too. It flows really well into Patrick's question, which was basically, you know, how to determine, you know, what style of nymphing is appropriate and kind of, is there a good rule of thumb to think about, you know, when to indicate or nymph and when to tightline or urinive?
Jason:
[20:02] Sure, I'm a big believer in reading the water, not only for the information that we get for where to fish, but it's also gonna tell you how to fish, because in reading the water, it's gonna tell you what method of, we were talking about nymph fishing, so what method of nymph fishing would be most suitable for that water type.
Where I might use a flotation device is maybe there's just a situation I'm facing on the river where I cannot get close enough to where I wanna establish a drift.
Maybe that's deeper water, faster water, I can't wade close enough to do a shorter range technique like uronymphing or high sticking, and maybe I'm 40 feet away in pretty swift water, I wanna put my fly over on the far bank, and so I'll choose some type of a flotation device, maybe a small plastic indicator to establish that drift further from my position or also from a drift boat.
So those are the criteria that I usually would, in that situation, I would usually choose some type of flotation device.
If I'm fishing in fast water where I can get proximity, I'm always gonna use some type of a high stick, you're a dim thing, some type of a.
[21:20] Direct tension type of nymph fishing, because that's really suited for fast water.
I can pierce those faster layers of current, get a good drift in the strike zone.
I can get close to those fish because we call those lies high-confident lies because those fish that are beneath that heavy, thick water, maybe it's broken and choppy, maybe it's opaque, maybe it's darker water, where you can get right on top of fish in order to do those techniques, that's a high confident lie because fish have a high confidence in their safety and security while feeding in that lie.
But if I'm looking at a situation where it's a low confident situation, where maybe it's lower water, lower water, gin clear water, and those trout are spooky and anxious, that's a low confident situation.
Those trout will flee for cover at the slightest threat, even a small bird overhead is enough to send them running for cover.
And so in that situation, the water tells me, okay, I can't get, I'm not gonna splash a big plastic indicator on them, they'll flee for cover with that too.
I can't get close enough to do a check style or short range gyro nipping.
I've got to back up and respect their anxiety in that low confident position.
[22:38] So that's where I'll use longer leaders, lighter flies.
I'll use a long range nipping technique or I'll put out a small tuft of yarn like a New Zealand indicator that lands very gently on the water.
So everything would be geared in that situation to respecting the trout's anxiety and their spookiness on those low confident bias.
Marvin:
[23:02] Yeah, and the great thing too, with the urine nipping rig to your point is you can float it, right? And then you don't have to change stuff around then when you go back to a more traditional tightline presentation, you're just lifting all that stuff off the water.
Jason:
[23:17] Yep, that's right. And we're looking at some new products that have different float characteristics and leader design.
I mean, there's more change and more change coming in this part of our sport than I can think of in any other area.
But we're looking at floating those ciders if you're uronymphing or greasing them up with some type of a pad paste or other water repellents and using smaller flies so that we can kind of suspend them, kind of like we used to do with midge fishing 20 years ago with two pinch-on foam indicators, where we would kind of just suspend those smaller flies at different depths in the water column from greater distance.
And again, in that situation, Strike Zone tells us how to rig.
It's okay for us to have our flies at mid-depth in the water column.
And so those techniques are ideally suited for that.
Marvin:
[24:15] Yeah, which kind of flows really well. Tyler's got a great question, you know, and it's kind of trying to reconcile kind of two schools of thought, urinating.
And so one of them, you know, he's been told, you know, you kind of swing the flies into place so you know you've got slack at the beginning and you kind of come tight.
And I think we actually talked about that in an earlier episode where you would literally kind of, you know, things would be moving along and then all of a sudden the slider would slow down, right? knew you were down.
Comparing that with, you know, being told you want to be tight instantaneously because you don't want to miss any strikes and so you cast, you almost immediately begin leading the flies and he kind of wanted to get your thoughts on kind of what's the best way to get to the right depth and get in the zone without losing out on those early strikes.
Jason:
[24:59] Well, there's a lot of layers to that question, and a lot of layers to the answer then too.
But controlled descent, we don't want to just have a complete free fall to our flies where we have so much slack that we're missing fish on the way down.
So an uncontrolled descent is not what we're hoping to achieve, but we don't want so much tension that we're impeding the descent or that we're many times we find ourselves leading the drift in and actually pulling the flies which impedes their descent so we never do reach goals one or two so learning how to do a tuck cast even from long range you can still get that kind of arc over to allow those flies to begin descending before the actual downstream drift begins.
[25:52] And so, I guess the simplest answer to that would be a controlled descent, where we do have some connectivity to the flies, but we haven't completely lost, you know, or restricted the drift of those flies so that we've kept them from getting to the bottom.
So, I think a lot of of people have made adjustments to that tuck cast.
Some people kind of extend the arm at the end of that cast to kind of turn those flies downward.
Some people will just give it a slight flick of the rod upward at the end of their cast to kind of, again, to loop and arc those flies down so that we can achieve that controlled descent.
Because if we really just start leading our flies right after it and we have maximum tension, we're never gonna let those flies really descend the strike zone.
Marvin:
[26:45] Yeah, and we can also cheat a little bit too, right? And we can cast upstream of where we think the strike zone really is, and it gives us a little bit of a cushion while we're while we're trying to figure everything out, right?
Jason:
[26:55] Yeah, and that's kind of like a tiered drop situation.
We call it a tiered drop because you know that we're looking at by tiers of the water column and the drop of our flies. And so you can kind of estimate.
So if you're casting to a fish say that's in two and a half feet of water and you cast two feet above it, yeah the next cast might be three feet above it so that our flies will reach a different tier of depth as they pass over that trout.
So again, kind of tearing down through the water column by reaching out a little bit further in front of that fish or by giving it a little sharper tuck to get quicker descent of those flies is definitely a way, especially for pre-spotted fish, and when I get to fish with so many great anglers, and I'm so blessed to be able to do that.
But I see so many different techniques like that, where pre-spotting fish, they know the fish is there, that first cast, maybe they didn't get any reaction from the trout, they'll make a, trying to make that next drift maybe six inches deeper, and then the next drift after that, six inches deeper.
Marvin:
[28:15] Yeah, and then we got our final question from Mac and he wanted to basically get your thoughts on, you know, if you're fishing where the stream depth is changing pretty consistently, what is the best way to make sure your flies are always at the right depth.
Jason:
[28:35] Well, the most important thing that we can do is the thing that sometimes we often overlook, and that's troubleshooting our drift.
If we catch a fish, obviously the trout are the judge and jury about the quality of our drift, but even when we're not catching fish on every drift, we can still decide and evaluate and analyze that drift and know that we've reached those three objectives.
Because we can see by the drift speed is probably the most accurate tell as far as how effectively we've met those first two goals.
Because if our fly is slowed down, because they've reached the strike zone where it's moving slower, they cause the drift to move slower.
It's not something that we're doing as an angler on the other end of the of the rod, but it's the flies that slow the drift. Once the drift slows, well, then you know your flies are tracking in the strike zone at the appropriate speed.
And that's troubleshooting the drift is something that we should do with every every cast and presentation we make.
Marvin:
[29:45] Yeah. And so I guess for a visual cue, right, we're really kind of talking about if we know that the water on the bottom is a fraction of the speed of the water at top, you want to see that cider moving slower than say bubbles or leaves or things like that on the top of the water, right?
Jason:
[30:00] That's correct, but we can not only use it for uranymphing with a cider, but we can also use it for other forms of nymph fishing as well.
We can get that information from flotation devices or suspension devices as well, knowing that they're giving us a quality drift.
We get the same feedback, not just from watching a cider, but say from the New Zealand strike indicator, it's telling you by its characteristics when it stands upright in the water, it tells you you have contact to your flies.
When it starts to slow down very slightly, it tells you that your flies are in the strike zone moving at the appropriate speed.
So, and then when we're using larger plastic devices that are less readable, well, you know, we have to make some adjustments there too.
If we choose a smaller plastic device, we're using enough weight to balance that rig out.
We can still see, I can usually see that flotation device will settle a little deeper in the water on the surface.
It'll slow a little bit. So I can get some readability to it.
But even with that, what I can do is I can just throw mends in it.
[31:14] And I'm not talking about mends between me and the strike indicator.
I'm talking about mends between the strike indicator and the flies, which means that if I'm gonna mend my strike indicator so that my flies are drag free again in the strike zone, I've got to lift that strike indicator up off the water and bring it slightly upstream of its original position, which allows the flies to swing out and lower in the water column.
When I lower that strike indicator back on the water, my flies have gotten ahead of, or at least abreast of that strike indicator, and now they're back they belong.
So, those are all things that we can do, even with plastic flotation devices, when we have to use those, we can still get the job done.
Marvin:
[32:05] Yeah. And what are your thoughts kind of on, you know, like I know some people will keep the bunny ears on their siders, right?
Or they'll hit knots with like UV resin so that it glows to give people a little bit more visual feedback. Do you like those? Do you do you think they're necessary?
Jason:
[32:23] Sometimes, yeah, I don't think bunny ears are really helpful to me when I'm vertical and my cider's out of the water.
Where I think bunny ears can be really, really helpful is if I'm doing a long line nipping technique and I've got real small flies and real light leaders and I know I've got to float that cider for a while.
[32:44] That's where I think bunny ears can be really helpful because they can, it's like a little antenna then in your leader that can register those real subtle strikes that are so hard to pick up in slow water.
Again, it's those strikes that are the hardest to pick up. Fast water strikes are easy.
That trout, you will usually grab that flying duck for cover, whether it's up in the water column or to the side, and those strikes usually, you can feel them, or they're more visually apparent.
[33:13] The slower water strikes are the ones that are tough because that trout could just kind of float with that fly in slow water, knowing again, the strike zone could be from top to bottom at slower water, and they'll just come up, float next to that fly, and they could inhale it by flaring the gills, and they can cough it out just as fast.
And so those are the tough strikes to detect. That's where every little cheat that you can use, bunny ears or the New Zealand style indicators.
I know people that put two New Zealand style indicators out or two tiny pieces of yarn or tiny pieces of foam because those strikes can be that hard to pick up because you think about it, at 40 feet away or 30 feet away, if I just have a single reference and that moves or slows slightly, I can't always pick that up.
But if I have a second visual aid out there, whether it's two New Zealand's or two sets of foam or whatever it is, I can see one move apart from the other would be a subtle strike.
Or I can see them turn in the water where a trout has picked up your flying gun sideways with it.
Marvin:
[34:24] Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, folks, we really appreciate all the questions.
And also, you know, we really should should thank our friends at Temple Fork Outfitters and SA for providing the great prizes as well as you, Jason, you've got a someone, some lucky winner is going to get a signed copy of your Nymph Masters book.
Jason:
[34:42] Oh, I'm excited. You bet. And I want to add my gratitude to TFO and Scientific Anglers.
These companies are just so great about supporting educational programs within our sport, and they're also so responsive to providing what anglers need on the rivers or streams, new products, good products, and new ideas.
Marvin:
[35:07] ISKRA Yeah, absolutely. And so just to refresh everyone, I know everyone's sitting there waiting like they're listening to the radio to see if their question or their song gets played.
So what we did is we took all of the people that submitted questions and I put those in the Google number generator and that person, the winner, will get a signed copy of Jason's book and I'll take care of the logistics of connecting you with Jason and you can get your book personalized exactly the way you want it.
And then everyone's question that we actually read or used in the episode tonight we're entering a drawing for a TFO stealth rod and reel loaded with a SA urine nemthing line and so we did the exact same thing with the uh with the google number generator we've got two winners and i'll reach out to you or if you're here and you're eager you can reach out to me and so Jason the the book winner is Howie Fisher so uh congratulations Howie we'll be in touch and then the super lucky winner of the rod and reel combo is Patrick Stevens so Congratulations, Patrick.
Jason:
[36:06] Wow, that's awesome. You know, congratulations, guys. It's it's it's going to be fun getting that in the mail.
Marvin:
[36:13] Yeah, absolutely. And I'll I'll reach out to each of you if you if I if you're eager, feel free to reach out to me. And, you know, Jason, it's been a lot of fun working on this series with you. We'll have to come up with a another project to work on together.
Jason:
[36:25] That's great. I've enjoyed it, Marvin, and it's always fun to talk about fishing.
Marvin:
[36:31] Yeah, we maybe we can do a cocktail of the month. We can come up with different ways to make Moscow mules. That works. So we'll have to get articulate fly Moscow mule mugs. That's what I'll have to show up with the next fly fishing show.
Jason:
[36:46] Well, that'll keep you out of trouble, I think. Next time I ask you.
Marvin:
[36:49] Fair enough. Well, listen, folks, I hope you guys have found this useful.
You know, feel free to send me any feedback and, you know, get out there and catch if you put all this stuff to work and catch a few fish.
Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines, Jason.
Jason:
[37:03] Thanks Marvin, tight lines.