Transcript: PODCAST INTERVIEW: Intentionality with David Chorpenning
Transcript
Intro:
[0:04] Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly.
On this episode, I'm joined by fly fisherman, skier, and author, David Corpenning.
We discussed David's fly fishing journey, the power of intentionality, and his most recent book, What the F is Next.
I think you're really going to enjoy this one.
But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items.
If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.
And folks, save the date. Our friend Landon Mayer is hosting the 8th annual Clean the Dream on August 26th on the South Platte River.
If you'll be in the Denver area, you should definitely check it out.
It'll be a great day of fellowship and stewardship.
Stay tuned to Landon's Instagram, at Landon Mayer Fly Fishing, for more details.
And as we continue to create and distribute more diverse content, you may want to consider downloading our iOS or Android app.
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Now, on to our interview.
Marvin:
[1:23] Well, David, welcome to the Articulate Fly.
David:
[1:27] Thank you, Marvin.
Marvin:
[1:28] Looking forward to our conversation, and we have a tradition on the articulate fly, we We like to ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.
David:
[1:37] Okay, I will definitely do that. And before I do that, though, I would like to say I've listened to a few of your podcasts, and you really seem like someone I'd like to spend a day with on the river.
So I hope we get to do that one day.
Marvin:
[1:49] Yeah, that would sound like a lot of fun. And I, I'm kind of gregarious, and I'm a relatively good stick and I like to drink bourbon.
So it usually makes for a good day.
David:
[1:59] Well, that sounds great. Yeah, I've kind of gotten into tequila pretty hard, but bourbon would be fine as well.
Marvin:
[2:07] Yeah, no mess.
David:
[2:07] Right, right. So, as I think about that question, my grandfather pops up and he had one of those, I can't remember the name, but a small motor, a small boat, he put a motor on it.
And we would trailer it out to the Cuyahoga River that ran through Akron, Ohio.
And of course, Cuyahoga River was famous at one time, the fact that it caught fire in Cleveland. I don't know if you ever heard that story, but it was literally a river on fire.
But I'd have to say that initially I was really turned off by fishing, other than being with my grandfather.
I loved my anytime I had with him. He had a farm and spent a lot of time doing that kind of stuff.
But the issue I didn't know this till later, but I thought fishing was related to this really kind of awful smell of almost, you know, stabbing worms that have kind of a smell to them after they've been in the boat all day.
And I associated fishing with that smell and so it was really great to learn that you could didn't have to use worms and of course that was a lot later that I got into fly-fishing but then all that issue went away.
Marvin:
[3:28] Very neat. Speaking of, when did you come to the dark side of fly fishing?
David:
[3:33] Yeah, well, it wasn't until, you know, kind of later in life.
So I was basically in my 30s, and our family took a three week road trip up to Hamilton, Montana.
And my best friend was, I had a brother that lived there.
And at the time, he kind of lived out in the, you know, the edges of Hamilton.
And actually, we stayed in a teepee, which was kind of cool for my myself and our kids. And we went fly fishing either in a creek or flow the river every day.
And then as we drove home through Jackson, Wyoming, we stopped at, it was some kind of a fly fishing museum. And actually I was trying to look it up and I can't find anything about this.
But it was some kind of a museum, went in there and we're looking around.
My wife said, David, I'm going to buy you one of the starter fly fishing packages because you had such a good time doing it up in Hamilton.
I think that's the perfect fit for you. So, that's when I got introduced to fly fishing really by my wife.
Marvin:
[4:37] Yeah, very, very neat. And so, we'll talk to our common mentor that we both have, but who are some of the folks that have mentored you on your fly fishing journey and what have they taught you?
David:
[4:49] Yeah, I live in Manatee Springs, Colorado. So, we have lots of trout creeks and rivers nearby.
And I actually started that, when I got that starter fly fishing rod, I went out, bought some hip waders, and started walking in the river waving a stick.
And I did that for probably about a year and thought it was just great.
I had no idea what I was doing, but I thought it was really cool walking in a river and just waving my stick over here, over there. And then finally after about a year I said, You know, I think it'd be interesting to catch a fish.
And so we have a local fly shop, Angler's Cubby, and I signed up for a lesson.
And they taught me how to actually rig the rod, what flies to use, you know, the, you know, where the kitchen was.
And I would say that was my mentoring into actually catching fish.
Marvin:
[5:45] And neat. And so do they have a store in Manitou Springs? I know, isn't there a store kind of at the bottom of the hill as you kind of start coming up the mountain, kind of from the flatlands?
David:
[5:52] Yes. Actually, they're right kind of on the border between Manitou and Colorado Springs.
Marvin:
[5:58] Yeah, got it. Yeah, I actually stopped there and ate a sandwich heading up to Woodland Park last year in their parking lot. Yeah.
David:
[6:05] Yeah, they have a really nice parking lot for sure. Yeah.
Marvin:
[6:08] And so, you know, we met through a common angling friend, Landon Mayer.
You know, how did you meet Landon and why did you reach out to him?
David:
[6:18] Yeah, well, this is actually where I think intention comes into my life.
As I kind of mentioned, I've been fly fishing for some time.
And I've been reading about different techniques of fishing.
And I came across Landon's book, site fishing for trout.
It seemed like an interesting next step. So I really then created an intention that I want to be able to do what what he was talking about, which is side fish for the trout I was fishing to instead of just as I said, waving a stick at fishy water.
And so after reading his book, I booked a guide trip with him.
And right away, as I'm sure your experience has been too, right away he jumps into helping me get a better idea of not only where the trout were, but large trout.
And I would just walk down the river, he'd be niffly saying, okay, do you see that trout? And I'm going, not so much.
But anyway, I could generally see it and with his instruction, I hooked some of those large trout and had those kind of fights and I was hooked.
Marvin:
[7:32] Yeah, and so were you down in South Park kind of fishing in the, I guess, the flat areas on the Platte?
David:
[7:43] Yes, yeah, known as the Dream Street.
Marvin:
[7:45] Yeah, it's an interesting section of water. I mean, it's not like tumbling bouldery, and so it's an interesting place to try to spot fish.
David:
[7:55] Yeah, it definitely is. And it has, I'm not sure, I guess what it is or something to do coming out of the dam, but it has a stained color.
So it's not like you're looking into a, you know, a gin clear creep.
So it requires, actually it's a great learning spot for spotting trout because you're not, when we say see a trout, it's sometimes hard to see it.
You're really just seeing this kind of blobby thing that moves around.
So I can now, when I'm in better water, it makes it easier because I've been able to identify where that, where the blob is to start with.
Marvin:
[8:36] Yeah. And it's kind of an interesting thing getting in and out of the water can sometimes be intriguing. Yeah, absolutely.
David:
[8:43] Yeah.
Marvin:
[8:46] You know, so it's interesting, you know, because almost all anglers want to improve.
I mean, I don't think I talked to anybody or have given a talk to a club or anything where the anglers don't want to get better.
But I think, you know, if we're honest, you know, not a lot of anglers are able to grow and progress in a really significant way. And and I was kind of curious why you think that's the case.
David:
[9:10] Yeah, my simple explanation would be that, like trout, we're creatures of habit.
And we tend to do what we've always done, content with the success we've gotten from it.
So, I mean, I even had this experience, I was recently down in the Keys and fly fishing for juvie tarpon and, you know, their age kind of came up in some conversation, they've been around for 50 million years.
But yet, after 50 million years, they still fall for the fact that I throw them a fake piece of, you know, fly, and they go ahead and eat it.
So there's 50 million years of evolution in there, and they're still doing what they've always done, which is, if it looks like food, I'm going to try to eat it.
And my experience is, for example, with my friends that I fish with, they have been intrigued by the site fishing and they actually, I think most of them now ride it, do it more and find that they enjoy it more.
But at the end of the day, they basically said, you know, I'm probably still okay with just casting the fishy water and catching whatever I can catch.
Marvin:
[10:17] Yeah. It's interesting too, because one of the things I, you know, I kind of noted for my time in Colorado last year was that, you know, it's not that we don't site fish kind of in the mid-Atlantic koi fish, so western North Carolina, east Tennessee.
But the fact that you have these reservoirs like Cheeseman or 11 Mile or Deckers where the water's relatively clear, right?
And there's a real game of stalking fish and you've got those tailwaters, so you have a lot of biomass, so you have big fish.
It's an interesting thing and it's interesting because I've talked to Landon about it too, how, you know, it's not universally geographic, but it's actually something I think that is more unique to your part of the world than I think some people think.
David:
[11:06] Yeah, I think the tail, so the tailwater concept, what you're kind of saying, we both have tailwaters, and that's what makes the dream stream work.
We have the tailwater, you know, that comes out of Spinney Mountain.
And then you have the 11 mile reservoir, so all these fish can get big in the lake. And then during the spawn, you know, they come up into the dream stream and then they decide, some of them decide to stay. stay.
So, yeah, we have the combination of both those, I guess, geological features, you'd say, lend itself to having the opportunity for these larger trout.
Marvin:
[11:42] Yeah, because, I mean, for us, I mean, we have, you know, a preponderance of free stones that are relatively sterile, right?
So, unless people are putting fish into them, you know, catching, you know, 12 to 14 inch fish is pretty good. An occasional big one is awesome, But a different kind of game and, you know, kind of going back to fishing with Landon. So you wanted to get better, you booked him.
David:
[12:04] Yeah.
Marvin:
[12:05] And, you know, you started out and, you know, you've gotten to kind of the end of the process of being a better site fisherman.
And I'm sure you learned a ton of other stuff, but kind of, you know, break down that process in terms of like how long had you been waving your stick in the air before you reached out to Landon? You know, how many trips did you take with him? And kind of what did that kind of knowledge journey look like?
David:
[12:27] Yeah, that's a really great question.
And that fishing with Landon is beyond a game changer.
I mean, I don't think you can get on his books unless you book out what, like six months or a year.
But he is an incredible human being, plus an incredible intuitive fly a fisher person.
[12:52] So for me, you know, how long had I been, I've been fishing, he has been a guide with me now for about eight years.
So I started fishing, I guess, in my...
In my 40s, I was probably fishing, I guess, for 15 or 20 years before I really, you know, dialed in with landing.
But what happened was after that first trip of land and I fine-tuned my intention.
So it wasn't just to go out and catch fish, it was really to have the skills to sight and land the largest and most experienced trout in the river.
And I added another piece to to that, which is, well, I can explain to you a little later, but to be fully present in the moment, connecting to the natural environment and the people I'm with.
[13:42] And because of that first intention of having the skills to sight land the largest and most experienced trout in the river, I'm not fishing all the time.
I am walking. I'm looking.
And so I have a lot of time. And when Landon and I go fish, you know, the fishing part is maybe 20% of our day, the rest of the time we're doing just that, you know, we're, each of us are, you know, ogling over, oh, look at the wildflowers, oh, look at those big clouds.
So, because we're just focused on walking and looking and seeing, we are able to cover a lot of ground and at the same time watch where we're at and have really interesting conversations.
[14:31] So another kind of thing that's really been positive about doing this approach with land and learning it is I used to by mid-summer kind of have a sore arm because I've been casting a lot and now I don't cast, you know, probably 25%, 20% of what I used to, because I just wait until I'm in the right spot and I have the fish in my sights and maybe I can also just make a few casts and at least have a little bit of a break. have a fish on it, not necessarily land it.
And as I indicated also, that gives me more time to be present in the environment.
And I'm able to have, Len and I have sometimes really in-depth conversations and we're walking along, talking politics and about our kids and our families, whatever.
And then, you know, usually him before me, of course, he's gonna say, David, I think we have one in our sights.
And then we get down to business during that time.
But I would say that's kind of been that journey. Yeah.
Marvin:
[15:34] Yeah. It's neat. Right. Because, you know, it's kind of funny because I'm, we were kind of talking before we started recording. I'm, I'm slightly type A, right.
Which is the pause for everybody to laugh. But you know, I think one of the great lessons that you get, not just from fly fishing, but I think, you know, I always tell people, I was like, you know, you can only take what the river is willing to give you.
Right. And it's never the same. And so I think it's an interesting thing to kind of develop that patience and that skill.
So, yeah, so, you know, it's funny, right? So you've been fishing with Landon for eight years.
You know, my general life experience is things don't go as planned.
And so I'm kind of curious what was the biggest surprise or challenge you encountered while you've been working with Landon on your site fishing and other skills?
David:
[16:28] Yeah, well, the short answer to that is, that gives you a pretty good idea of what my challenges are on my journey, is that every time I meet with Landon, I have a list of questions.
[16:41] So, when I leave the river with Landon, I'm exhausted and my head's full of all the things that he's just laid out to me.
So that's how I start my days with Landon, is with a good long Leslie sit in the, we're in the parking lot and he's kind of running through him and giving me some ideas of either of the things that I can answer right there.
I said okay we'll do it on the river.
So at this point I now have become pretty good at being able to see the fish.
Again he even in that case he's going to more likely see the fish before I do.
But what's really I think been the biggest challenge that I have is that now that maybe I see the fish, and I get the fish on, but either right away or during the fight, I lose them.
And I lose the fish. And while I'm standing there with no trout on the line, I can feel pretty flummoxed as to what just happened.
And then I, you know, one of the things that I have is control issues, so I don't feel like I've been in control of the situation and it didn't turn out the way I had planned.
And so I have to challenge my reaction. So my reaction gets, sometimes I start to go down this rabbit hole of, wow, David, why did that happen? and you know what?
[18:06] You should have done that better. Why didn't you tie that knot better?
You notice that knot in your leader or knot in your tippet.
Why didn't you do that? I can go start going down that road of being self-deprecating about my abilities as a fisherman.
That has really become much more my challenge.
It's as soon as I notice that I'm starting to be self-critical to turn that around and just know that that's just that's just part of the game and I have to kind of move forward with that.
Marvin:
[18:41] Yeah, you can't catch them all and I would also say too, you know, for folks that, you know, I mean, I think Landon's booked out way more than six months at this point, but, you know, you don't have to, you know, if you can fish with Landon by all means, I think both of us highly recommend the experience, but I would also say, you know, if you want to get better, you know, you can probably find what I'll call a teaching guide somewhere near you that you can interact with in a very similar way.
David:
[19:12] Yeah, I've heard you say that on a number of podcasts, and that is absolutely wonderful advice.
And I'm really surprised that I don't have – I make that recommendation to my friends, and either they sometimes are a little too cheap or whatever.
But it is absolutely great advice to do that.
Marvin:
[19:28] Yeah, for sure. For sure, and you know, it's interesting too, right, because while we've been kind of talking about all this and fishing, you know, what this is really grounded in is a very intentional approach to living your life.
And you found that relatively early on, and I was kind of curious, you know, if you could share with us kind of that aha moment you had when you embarked on a more intentional approach to not just your fishing life but your personal and your business life.
David:
[19:55] Yeah, it's a great question. Thanks for that. Yeah. Well, of course, to start with, and I've already kind of alluded to this, I've become a more intentional fly fisherman, and that has made me both a better angler and has really brought me even to a greater love of the sport as a result of being intentional about my fly fishing.
But to answer your question about, you know, where did it first kind of show up?
Really in my early 20s, I got into selling real estate.
And back at that time, that profession attracted motivational speakers like Zig Ziglar and Napoleon Hill, and Tony Robbins, actually, who's still around today.
And they were talking about setting goals to accomplish things that you wanted.
And at that time, it was really mostly focused on selling to make money.
So, you know, I was, I did listen to that message.
But at 23, I kind of had internalized some of that stuff. And I said, you know, I'm gonna think about what do I really want to have happen.
And I created an intention to be financially independent by the time I was 33.
And I decided the vehicle to do that was to own real estate.
[21:16] So I began having some success with that intention and by the time I was 26 I had acquired 13 units. I was still in Akron, Ohio.
But I think that really gave me confirmation and motivation to consider using intention for the other parts of my life.
So I created two other big intentions. One was to move from Akron, Ohio to somewhere out west, because Akron, Ohio doesn't really have much of an outdoor venue, and it also doesn't have much sunshine.
And the west had been out there, was very attractive to that, and I was, it was time for me, I was feeling it was time to have a long-term relationship, and then within a year, really both of those things did happen.
So what I kind of reflect on now later is that I don't think intention is some magic bullet or magical thing that happens just because you say it, but what I have found is that when I do my intentions, they become a lens to see opportunities around me that do show up.
And of course, I do have to take you have to take action on those opportunities to make them happen.
Marvin:
[22:31] Yeah, it's funny you say that. So I think I've probably got a half a dozen of the Zig Ziglar worksheets in the bottom drawer. And the interesting like, obviously, I came to those through Seth Godin, right?
And that was the path of he shared, recommended those, he shared those, right.
And so I did his Okay. – his Alt MBA program and actually did his marketing seminar.
And so I think I've got literally probably half a dozen of them.
There are probably half a dozen of them that are filled out.
But, you know, it's interesting, too, talking about being financially independent.
And you and I have talked about lifestyle design, right?
So my kids are younger, but I'm talking particularly with my oldest son about this.
And it's a really powerful concept for people to think about whether they want to trade time for money, or they – or they wanna build a business where that's not the case and they have other people and other assets generating income for them.
David:
[23:31] Yes. That's a great conversation you're having.
I commend you for doing that and I can just guarantee you, probably guarantee you that because you've had that conversation, that will make a huge difference because both of my kids, I didn't rant or rave about that idea, but they saw it being lived, you know, growing up and both of them own real estate and a significant part of their income already. It's coming from that.
So yeah, I commend you for doing that.
Marvin:
[24:04] Yeah, it's interesting too, but I also understand you were interrogating their friends about the purpose of their bicycles. So.
David:
[24:12] That's right. It's a piece of the book. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
It's kind of a joke for sure. Yeah.
My dad's going to interrogate you about what your life purpose is, even though you want to just tell him about this great bike that you just bought.
Marvin:
[24:27] So the funny part with that, right, is you know you can always have a plan, but you know if you've lived long enough, you know that life has a tendency to throw you a curveball or two.
And I was kind of curious, you know, as you've walked down this path, you know, have you ever been tempted to abandon it?
And if you've been able to, you know, probably been tempted, you know, how did you manage to find a way to staying on track? on track.
David:
[24:52] Yeah, those are two really great questions. And I'm gonna break it in, break into the two parts.
First of all, I mentioned to you earlier that I had this financial intention to be financially secure by the time I was 33, when I was 23.
So 23, 33 rolled around, and I wasn't.
I had made progress, but I was pretty short of the amount of money that we needed to feel that financial security.
And this is, and I now come to understand the reason for that is during those five or so years after arriving in Colorado, I had mostly forgotten about that intention that I created a decade earlier, and I became consumed with everything that requires your attention when you're starting a new life in a new place, and of course having our first child.
[25:42] So, what I did learn from that is that the importance of actually revisiting my intentions more regularly, and that kept me to keep them more on the forefront of my awareness.
[25:56] And then finally, by actually doing that, I was able to, by the time I was 40, about seven years later than I planned, I actually was pretty close to that financial intention.
So that would have been the kind of the curveball that I had that actually now I integrate into the book so that I hope other people will realize that revisiting is part of creating an intention.
And then the second part of your question, really my key strategy to stay on my journey is that, first of all, at the very beginning, I really take the time and I use that same process that we do in the What the F is Next book is that I really take the time to make sure that it's important, that I know that it's something that fits me, that I have the skills and to have the resources.
Will work with what this thing that I want to have happen.
And as a result, because I really take that initial time to decide this is something that is going to work for me, I find that I'm less likely to buckle or really quit on those intentions.
I end up changing them and tweaking them a lot.
[27:13] I had my intentions, all my personal intentions, pop up once a week in my Apple calendar.
And I read through them and I go, oh, that's not quite right now.
Or I'm gonna change that.
This one a little higher in the list.
And I think that doing that weekly look, see about what I wanna do.
And then I schedule blocks of time to do those is really my strategy to stay on track.
Marvin:
[27:41] And neat. And you know, we touched on it a little bit earlier.
I understand you were a real estate broker and you're in your 20s and you got to seize Tony Robbins and Ziegler and that kind of put you on the path.
But what's interesting to me is I think as people approach middle age, it's not uncommon for them to kind of think about intentionality either directly or indirectly.
But again, you were in your 20s. You weren't in your 50s or your late 40s or your early 60s.
And I was kind of curious, you know, how did that, you know, how were you able to kind of get that kind of clarity in your 20s?
You know, was it a function of growing up in the 60s, some other life event or some kind of combination of all of that?
David:
[28:24] Yeah, Marvin, you ask really great questions. And, you know, I think I can actually write another book now after you've asked me these questions that would be interesting for people with the, you know, with these different kind of ways of looking at this process.
But one of the things that I think for sure has influenced me early, and I didn't know this until I look back, kind of look back on my life, is that I was an entrepreneur early.
I actually had a landscaping company with a friend when I was 16, and we hired all of our friends to work for us, which is kind of unique at 16 years old.
And then when I was in my early 30s, or I'm sorry, early 20s, I was both selling and purchasing real estate and building passive solar houses in my 20s.
I have come to believe that a person who is an entrepreneur already is someone who has strong intentionality because an entrepreneur, of course, imagines a product or service and then commits to actions.
[29:36] I think that's really one aspect of my own intentionality early on.
I think the other thing that was helpful is having those successes early with intention.
So having thought that I wanted to be financially independent, decide to buy real estate, and then to own 16 or 13 units by the time I was 26, I went, hmm, that's pretty cool.
And then the last one, which is kind of unique too that I've really in later life come to understand is because I have such a strong desire to have control of my life, I needed a tool to help me with that.
And I'm a realist to know that, you know, I can't control everything that happens around me.
But when I would make an intention for something to happen, I found that I had this feeling inside me that I was painting a picture of something that is what was at least likely to happen, and that gave me comfort.
And so when I'm not feeling control, I create an intention and then I feel more in control.
Marvin:
[30:40] Yeah, it's funny, right? Because I don't have the impression, I mean, we've spoken a couple of times before doing the interview.
I don't have the impression that you're terribly wired to work for other people.
David:
[30:53] I really haven't. I've only had problems when that.
Marvin:
[30:57] I've had that. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, But it's an interesting thing too, right?
And, you know, people don't embrace this power of being intentional.
I mean, what you've described, and we'll talk about the book in a little bit here in more detail, but, you know, it's not a super time-consuming thing.
But, you know, it amazes me how many people that are incredibly talented, financially secure, incredibly well-educated, really have absolutely no feeling of agency over their life?
David:
[31:34] So I think there's two issues that hold people back from having that agency or using intention.
And one is, is this what I really want? And secondly, what if I don't get what I want?
So to the first one, I really do think that because people aren't sure what they want, They don't take the time to really get grounded in what they love, what they've been good at.
However, everyone has history about that. They wouldn't be where they are now in their life if they hadn't had some successes and they hadn't been doing things that they love.
So again, we'll talk about the book later but that's actually step one in our process.
We really want people to basically do an inventory of their life to see that they actually have had success in what they've done.
And now they just need to be more grounded in that so that if they start out on an intentional journey, then they're more likely to be able to answer that question, I did get what I really want.
[32:40] And actually I have just a quick story about that. I recently was playing golf with my wife and I play golf with another couple And it kind of came up in conversation I said, hey, you know Of all the intentions you've ever created in your life big intentions, you know children marriage career on a scale of one to a hundred a hundred meaning that you knocked out of the park with your intentions and zero meaning and they didn't really happen.
How much would you say you've been good at creating intentions or fulfilling your intentions? And she thought for a minute, she goes, well, I think I have 85% of the time.
And I went, wow, that sounds really great. And then we, you know, engulf, each person goes off and hits their ball.
And then we got to the next box and she just was, you know, almost running up to me with this enthusiasm and she goes, David, when you asked me that question, how much I had been successful in tension, I hadn't thought about that.
And once I did, and I told you it was 85%, I went, oh my God, I have done this so many times and been so successful.
Sometimes, and she told me some stories about how she intended something and it happened almost to the letter. She goes, I can't help myself.
I've gotta be doing this more often.
[34:00] So I think that's the first part, It's just people don't take the time to reflect on the fact that they've done it, and they've been intentional, and they have things, and if they just spend a little time and enjoy that they can do it again.
[34:16] And then to the second one issue, what if I don't get what I want?
Again, it gets back to, and you've kind of even said this when I said that, you know, you don't land them all.
It's not the destination, it's really the journey that matters.
And if you start on the path toward something that is grounded in what you love, you're most likely to have at least an interesting value, valuable, and maybe even a challenging adventurous experience.
Marvin:
[34:43] Yeah. So which of those two things do you think are harder for people to do?
David:
[34:51] I think, I think they're both pretty hard. The first is hard because people just don't take the time. They don't have a means, a method to do that.
To really think about their lives and get grounded in what is it that they really want. I find that all the time, Marvin.
How would you answer that question? Do you feel pretty confident about that?
Marvin:
[35:13] Well, I mean, I think it's an interesting thing, right? I mean, I think, I think there are a lot of, I think people, I think this is one of the reasons why I think you see these things happening for most people in middle age is because they, they have a distorted sense of time, right?
In the sense of like, I mean, if you think about- They thought they were going to live forever, you mean. Forever, you mean? Right, exactly.
And they're going to be able to do everything that they're able to do right now. And it's like, you know, one of the things I try to explain to my oldest son is, you know, let's just say you go to college and you go to graduate school.
You're going to be in your mid-20s, right?
And you know, the 15 to 20 years right there after that are phenomenally powerful in their half your life, right, at that time.
But if you get to the end of those 20 or 25 years, I think that's one thing.
I would also say I think people, there's a, you know, getting too crazy about it, I think –, We have this kind of industrialized, optimized education model.
And so people, you know, I'm not talking about like people are used to working in factories, but I think that, you know, we've optimized what we think education should be in a way that doesn't help people like lead good lives.
Right. And that's even before you talk about the temptations of social media.
And I don't know. I mean, I talk to my oldest son all the time.
David:
[36:41] Soma. Yeah.
Marvin:
[36:42] Oh, yeah. About playing Clash of Clans. I was like, dude, like you do it all the time. I said, just be intentional about it. Don't do it because they ring the bell and you decided that you need to fight. So, I mean, I think there's a lot of stuff going on there.
And I don't know. I mean, it's – I mean, we could actually probably write a series of books and – Yeah.
Around all of these issues because I think they're – I think they're very powerful.
I think a lot of people just don't wanna like, it's kinda too hard, right?
And I think a lot of people trade material security for kind of a deeper meaning, right?
And I say that not being anti-money or anti-stuff, but I think what happens is it's a treadmill that I think pejoratively is called keeping up with the Joneses, right?
And the reality is the treadmill never breaks. So maybe there's a better way, right?
David:
[37:47] Yeah, there is. And it's a good, I mean, it's important that you brought up the fact, I mean, it's nice to have a certain level of financial security.
But it doesn't, you know, we're very fortunate that it doesn't take a lot to have a really good life.
We're fortunate in this country that we that that is a possibility and I think a lot of people just don't like in my case I kind of established a number early on it wasn't exactly right, but I never I kind of made the decision early That I don't have to have lots and lots of extra money I just need to have a certain amount to do these things that I love to do and living where you want to live That really helps because then you don't have to spend a lot of money on travel going places to kind of fulfill that need, you know, you can just go out your back door and get a lot of joy from that.
Marvin:
[38:39] Yeah. But you see that, I mean, that, that, these kind of concepts that we're talking about, you see it reflected in like the writing and philosophy of Tim Ferriss, right?
For our work week. Yeah, I mean, you see it, there's a book, I can't remember, Rolf Someone, it's a vagabonding book about basically traveling around and kind of how to do that.
But I think that, you know, if you get really focused on what's important to you, you can shed a lot of this extra stuff that's not, right?
And yeah, it's an interesting thing. I mean, it's – yeah, we could literally create an entire podcast series and talk about this stuff.
For sure.
David:
[39:21] But you know – But thanks for asking the question because it's really good.
Marvin:
[39:24] Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting thing. I mean, and it's actually, it's probably one of the most important questions I think you probably ask yourself, right?
But the interesting thing, right, is you kind of have distilled all of this down into a book that you co-authored with your son, and it's entitled What the F is Next.
And I wanted to, you know, we've been talking about the journey.
You've been on it for a while. You know, tell me a little bit about the genesis.
I mean, there's one thing to like, you know, you're acquiring real estate, you're doing your thing, and you're fishing with land and you're skiing Pike's Peak, but then you're like, I got a book in me, need to write a book.
So tell me a little bit about that.
David:
[40:02] Yeah, so one of my work service intentions is to inspire and motivate people to use invention more in their life.
So with that, I published the first one, which was Everyday Visionary, a Practical Guide to the Life You Desire. And that was probably back in 2007.
[40:21] And then I wrote another smaller version, which is the field guide to what's next. And that is the more practical guide factor of intentionality.
And so I had those two books. And then in the fall of 2021, my son said that he had done this world trip and one of his intentions was to do that and have that experience.
And he actually used a field guide prior to that trip and put a bunch of intentions in there, one of them being this world, you know, tropical world.
And so in 2021, he said, dad, you know, I did these and I used the field guide and and a lot of the stuff I wrote and I when I went back to to see what I'd written and I went, oh my gosh, a lot of this stuff had come to pass.
So, he said, why don't we combine the two previous books.
That was really something that when I wrote every day visionary I'd kind of hope to do but you know, when you're writing a book sometimes you just say I'm done.
And also the thing that he could bring to it is we could update it and bring his intentionality, his intentionality journey to the process.
So that was a pretty strong impetus and then the idea of working with my son on this project was really icing on the cake.
Marvin:
[41:47] Yeah, really neat. And so, you know, we've talked about fishing, we've talked about real estate, but then we've got this kind of other current, you know, where you, you know, later in life, got a degree in counseling.
And I was kind of curious what kind of attracted you to that and coaching and made you want to weave that into your, your life.
David:
[42:08] That's a really great question.
And I was always interested in talking with people about important things in our life. When I was actually in my teens, it's kind of strange, but in my teens, I really imagined a career as a talk show host.
And back then that was Johnny Carson. I don't know, do you remember Johnny Carson?
Marvin:
[42:27] No, I used to watch Johnny Carson. I do remember Johnny Carson.
I don't remember Jack Park, but I remember Johnny Carson.
David:
[42:35] Okay, well, Johnny Carson. So for some reason, I thought that would be so cool, just asking people all these interesting questions.
Well, of course, today, for your more modern audience, it would be Jon Stewart or Bill Maher.
And so I really saw having in-depth conversations with people to uncover interesting information about their lives would be a cool thing to do.
So I started my bachelor degree in psychology, but I got sidetracked.
And I won't talk about that, but I do fill that story out in the book.
I got very seriously distracted by things.
And then in my mid thirties, I really got pretty dissatisfied with my real estate brokerage career and I seeked out the help of somebody.
And back then it was the Yellow Pages. So you actually had a big book with Yellow Pages and you opened it up.
And I found a consultant, a life coach consultant by the name of Jeremiah Johnson.
[43:30] And I thought, well, that's one of my favorite movies. So that's no coincidence.
And so maybe I should give him a call and see what he has to say.
And of course, his advice back then was determine what are the most important things in your life and create a picture of what that looks like.
So again, just like Zig Ziglar, he gave me a workbook, and it helped me connect to that.
And from that, I created an actual, my intention about that, which was at that time to combine my love of the outdoors with helping people psychologically to improve their life.
And then from that, I decided that, well, the best do that, I should get a counseling degree.
And I did that and then created a bunch of opportunities to actually take action on that.
Marvin:
[44:18] Very neat. And you know, it's funny. So, you know, I know one of the attractions for writing the book was working with your son. And so I've got two boys, one's 20 and one's 15. And I think it's always neat when you get to kind of see them in kind of these snapshots, right?
You know, young, you know, young adult, but, you know, so I think this would probably been a really cool snapshot for you to be able to work with your son.
And I thought, you know, as an adult, right?
And I thought it'd be really cool if you would kind of share that experience with our listeners.
David:
[44:53] Yeah, I've had many opportunities actually to work with my adult children, which I'm really grateful for.
[45:00] We have a lot of topics of interest. My daughter and son both helped me launch the Field Guide several years ago.
They helped me launch my websites, Everyday Visionary, and then the Field Guide.
And we actually worked together getting out the Younger Vote for the 2020 election.
So, and of course, I think I mentioned before, they're on their own real estate ownership journey. They're both entrepreneurial.
[45:25] So we do have that, those aspects in common.
The other part that I really, I think, appreciate working with either both my kids or Colton in this case, is that they provide me a perspective that I both value and trust, and I really would, I think would find hard to get otherwise, because they introduced me to new ideas and experiences that I just wouldn't come across as a 71-year-old man.
And actually, that's something that you'll get to experience, Marvin, as your kids get older.
It's like, wow, that's another pet. You want to tell people that are wondering whether they have kids that your kids are going to be really important in your life later, not just because they're your kids, but because they're people that you're going they're living their lives at a different time and they're exposed to new things and they're going to expose you at a later date to things that you're just not going to come across normally.
So in this case, Colton is the project manager for our job, for our book, and that's actually his day job at Google, he's a project manager.
[46:37] And I've always been the project manager for the things I've done and I still am. We own real estate and I can't help but dip in and I think we're putting a deck on one of our properties and so I just couldn't help myself to go down there and weigh in on some ideas.
But in this case, it was nice to take a back seat to that.
And he has really kept us on task for a year and a half to get this book to where we want it to be.
And I think the other thing that's been really helpful is that he has had the actual experience with the three-step process, our what's next three-step process, and we've been able to weave that into the into the book as well.
Marvin:
[47:16] Yeah, it's interesting because you kind of listening to you, it makes me think about it's kind of like having a work colleague that you've worked with in their entire lives, right?
And so it gives you, it gives you like, you know, you have those trusted colleagues and for you who doesn't like working with other people, you haven't been in big organizations, but you know, to be able to have people where you sort of know kind of the paradigm that they operate under, right?
And so when they tell you things that there's a, you kind of understand how to judge and evaluate, right?
And I think that's, that would be a really interesting thing to do with your children. Cause I mean, you should really know the context that they're looking at the world, right?
David:
[47:58] Mm-hmm Yeah, that's that's another great way to explain it.
Yeah, they have a different they have a different perspective They have different context, but I know who they are at their soul, you know their deepest level So I know everything anything they would say to me They're only saying to me out of the greatest amount of desire for it to be helpful to me.
Marvin:
[48:19] Yeah, there's no agenda Yeah, and so, you know, we're actually now we've been gosh we've been talking for a price gosh 45 minutes We're going to actually kind of drill into the book a little bit, you know, for, yeah.
So for folks who aren't familiar, can you kind of give us the 30,000 foot view of the book? I can.
David:
[48:34] Yeah, thanks. Um, okay.
The, the kind of the key elements, there's probably two parts that I would, I would say, first of all, the key elements are is that we've combined the best of many intentional processes.
You know, I've been studying intention. I've been studying human development, personal growth for gosh, you know, 50 years. So I've studied them and I think we brought the best of a lot of processes.
[49:03] And then also I'm big into research. So I'm always doing research on intention.
Anything that pops up, you know, that talks about how the brain works and how we, you know, make decisions and make things happen, I'm gonna read it.
And, you know, if I can dig into the scholarly, I'm always on Google Scholar, you know, okay, let me make sure this is backed up with something.
And then I think the third, which is really important, is that both Colton and I have used the process personally.
[49:33] So it's not just something that we think is good, We've done it, and so we have that anecdotal aspect to it.
So, combining both a really well-grounded research base, but yet personally used process, I think, are the key elements.
And then the process itself is three steps.
The first step, we've designed questions for a reader to answer that will help them really uncover and connect with what they've been successful at, what they love to do, and what's important to them.
And as we talked about before, this really ensures several things.
First of all, they're going to be able to answer that question, that the intentions they create are what they truly want, and because those intentions are really grounded in that previous success and experience, they are more likely to have the skills and the confidence to make them happen.
So then the next two steps are really a process of creating a what's next intention and then how to actually take actions that are really research-based and help them to actually make those happen.
Marvin:
[50:43] Yeah. And what's amazing, you know, when folks hear this, what they don't know if they don't have the book in their hand or they haven't used it is, you know, one of the things that really struck me is it's incredibly reductive, right?
There's not a lot of fluff and it's really kind of almost like Dragnet, right?
That's the facts, ma'am, which you don't generally find in kind of self-help or improvement-type books.
And so I was kind of curious, are you wired to that way or is that a skill that you developed? Yeah.
David:
[51:16] Yeah. And, you know, that's exactly what we intended. So that person goes, wow, this really seems a little too simplified.
So you saying that, Marvin, I have great respect for your analysis of things.
That is a ultimate compliment to how we designed, how we wrote the book and designed the process.
Because we know, I mean, I know myself, and I just know other people's lives are really busy.
So we wanted to make sure we cut out all the fluff, no BS, make it the shortest, quickest route for people to do what they need to do to create an intention, a real conscious intention for an important part of their life.
And then secondly, to your kind of more personal question about myself, I am very practically oriented and I am always looking really for the most efficient ways to use my time.
And so Volk and I wanted to leverage that into this process.
Marvin:
[52:19] Very neat. And And so what would you say to folks that are reluctant to give your process a shot?
David:
[52:26] Well, I think people forget, or maybe they just never even fully realize that they've used intention their whole lives to make important things happen.
And I, if they don't do anything else, our book will remind them of that.
And I think I told that previous story about my friend on the golf course, you know, just just asking her that question, are you have you been intentional?
Have you been successful? And once she knew that, she's now, and she's also actually provided me an example of an intention.
She's a painter and she created a painting intention.
And it's incredible how that's influenced now her painting career.
And then I would just say, kind of to your point before, we were talking about why people, the life path, the life isn't a dress rehearsal.
So a person spending a couple hours of their time to read a book and do our process is really a small investment that they could have a profound impact on that course of their life.
Marvin:
[53:32] Yeah, or I would even turn around and talk about it like a hedge fund guy and say it's asymmetrical to the positive, very little downside, right?
Exactly, I like that.
David:
[53:43] Yeah. Do you have a lot of hedge fund managers that listen to the show?
Marvin:
[53:46] I don't know, you know, but I sort of, I was in finance in a previous iteration of my life.
So it's just a way that they have a very unique way, put aside the personality issues, they have a very unique way of viewing risk return that I think is, that if people thought about risk and return the way they do, could help them.
But so if folks wanna find a copy of the book, where can they find it, David?
David:
[54:15] Yep. So again, they should go through your website.
It's on Amazon, and you can get a paperback, a hardback, or now we have it on Audible. And then we also have a website that I think they should go through you and go through Amazon.
Marvin:
[54:35] Very cool. And I'll drop show notes to all those flavors of ice cream.
And also, too, is there anything that I've left out, David, any other great adventures, maybe some new intentionality you're exploring that you want to share with folks.
David:
[54:52] Well, that's that's a good question.
I am actually working on a couple, you know, kind of a couple of new intentions.
One is this, this whole world of podcasting is a little new new for me.
I've done I've done one or two now so I'm starting to understand it as a as a medium and so now I have an intention to just kind of feel more comfortable about this way of sharing my ideas this has been really fun doing this with you marvin so i think i'm a little bit hooked as to this is a i don't want to start my own podcast but i love you know everything you do to to create the space for us to have this conversation so that's one of my new intentions at this point very cool.
Marvin:
[55:37] And I don't know, I don't know, we didn't forgot to ask you, you know, how active your coaching and counseling practice is, but, you know, what's the best way for folks to kind of get in touch with you, follow your adventures kind of on and off the water and off the mountain, I guess, too, right?
David:
[55:52] Right. I don't have a social presence, but for your, you know, any of your listeners that really they're interested in learning more about how they can be more conscious, use conscious intention in their life, if they're interested in the book, I would recommend they buy the book and then if they read it, they have questions, they can actually email me at David at everydayvisionary.com.
Marvin:
[56:23] Well, there you go. And David, I really enjoyed our time together and hopefully we will get a chance to wet a line in the near future.
David:
[56:30] So it's great, Marvin. Thanks a lot.
Marvin:
[56:33] Have a great evening.
Intro:
[56:35] Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you again. If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating or review in the podcast of your choice. Tight lines, everybody.