Transcript: PODCAST INTERVIEW: Gustavo Hiebaum of SET Fly Fishing
Transcript
Intro:
[0:04] Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly.
On this episode, I'm joined by my old friend Gustavo Haibam of Set Fly Fishing.
Gustavo shares his passion for Argentinian fly angling, how he and his team built one of the best outfitters in South America, and we take a deep dive into all things golden dorado.
If you've ever wondered about chasing golden dorado on the fly, we have you covered.
But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items.
If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.
And I'm excited to bring the business and consulting skills I've developed off of the water to the articulate fly community.
If you're in the industry and feel like you're leaving money on the table, or the day-to-day grind of running a business is killing you, let me help you find a more profitable and enjoyable path in the sport.
Over to www.thearticulatefly.com, and let's start our conversation today. Now on to our interview.
Marvin:
[1:09] So Gustavo, welcome to The Articulate Fly.
Gustavo:
[1:13] Well, Marvin, thanks for having me and thanks for all the buddies listening.
It's a pleasure for me to have the excuse of talking fly fishing.
Marvin:
[1:22] Yeah, I'm looking forward to it and we have a tradition on The Articulate Fly.
We'd like to ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.
Gustavo:
[1:31] Well, that goes way back early. I mean, I think, you know, really like before actual fishing, I was here in my, not now my hometown, but vacation.
Back then I was only seven years old and was, you know, standing in the front of a store and I was begging my father to get me into, you know, buy me some fishing gear.
But the curious story, I really don't know where I got the fishing back from, but you know, my father was, was not an angler, you know, and he never has been.
I tried after later in the years to introduce him.
But anyway, I have that desire of get me myself into fishing and connect with, you know, and so we were here in San Martin on a family vacation.
I really begged my father to get that, that gear for me, only seven years old, you know, long story short, you know, a week later in a several week vacation here in the area of the Lake District in northern Patagonia, I was sitting on a dock in the Lake Nahuel Huapi in the town of Vizcal Angostura, which is only a couple of hours south of San Martin.
[2:41] You know, I was sitting on this dock and it was this big gigantic, silver rainbows that always cruise underneath this dock. There's still today, you can see these fish.
Probably all rainbows are ranging, you know, 5 to 6 pounds.
And there were like half a dozen of them just cruising around deep water on this. And I got from fathers of my friends that I got as a gift a couple of flies.
I remember it was a big cursier nymph.
[3:15] And I had really a spoon gear to cast with my little rod that I got there.
And I decided I'm going to let this nymph to go down.
I didn't know it was a nymph back then, it was just a fly I got gifted before my vacation.
And I put it down and I kind of jingled 10 feet depth that nymph until finally one of this monster rainbow, took my fly, pulled all the line out of this reel, it was a plastic reel, one of that cheap combos, we're talking about 35 or 38 years ago, right?
I mean, the reel got destroyed, fish broke off, and that was it, and I was caught for the rest of my life.
Marvin:
[4:02] Yeah, that's very neat. So when did you kind of start fly fishing full-time? time.
Gustavo:
[4:09] Well, you know, that was seven then, and we continued after that.
My father got kind of momentarily into fishing because he watched me so excited.
So he got into it a little bit, got with me, we got a little fancier gear, and we came back for like a couple more years, three years, into doing some spinning gear with spoons and trying to catch some trout.
But you know, as soon as I started that, I started to see more and more of the, here and there, scattered, because back then it was not a lot of fly fishermen in Argentina.
But I started seeing few enough to get me really, really triggered or interested. That's what I want to do.
[4:53] And so we have that same guy that give me, you know, originally that fly, I got that fishing into my little rod, you know, kind of helped my father to find me my first fly fishing gear.
Again, it was not a lot available.
Not many people knew much about fly fishing in Argentina back then.
But sure enough, you know, we got into a little tackle shop that they have the basic of some fly fishing. And, you know, I get me a rod, a reel. And the guy.
Who was a guy that we were still in touch with back then.
He was young, a guy in his 20s. And he took me to the park in my native town of Vallablanca, you know, in the Atlantic coast out of Buenos Aires, Provence. And he got me a couple of, you know, hours of casting instructions.
And I was launched to, you know, to get into fly fishing.
My next vacation down to to Patagonia, You know, I spent every single light day, hour of my vacation with the family trying to get a few fish and fly fishing, right?
So that's kind of a – I was only 10 years old.
Marvin:
[6:12] Yeah, that's neat. And so, you know, obviously, it's kind of consumed you at this point.
You know, when did you kind of get the guide bug and decide that you really wanted to become a fishing guide?
Gustavo:
[6:24] Well, you know, that drug, that it was the first, you know, what I just told you, it got keep on growing, right? Like significantly.
And I was a teenager and I could only think about fishing when I was spending my days in school in my native town on the Atlantic coast. It could only count days, typically the first week in December when the summer break start.
We came with family for two or three weeks, typically till Christmas or New Year's, and we spent almost the whole month of December in the area here exploring, camping.
By that time, I knew I wanted to do something that allows me to live fishing the most possible and to be on the water the most possible.
And I saw there was people that dedicated to take other people fishing and it was guiding and it was kind of a starting to grow thing.
So yeah, I probably was 15 or 16 when I said to myself, I wanted to spend my life taking people fishing. And I don't know how it's going to work or how this is, but I'm going to find out.
Yeah, that's a self-inspiration into my desire of staying near the water that early in time in life. Right.
Marvin:
[7:46] Yeah. And so how did you break into the guide game? You know, you're 15, 16 years old, you're like, I want to do this, you know, how did you get your first job?
Gustavo:
[7:56] Well, it's another interesting story, kind of go together with the start of the early stages of what the company is, because as soon as it got off high school, you know, I was in college, but I had enough time in the summer break to continue to come to the area.
And I wanted to get a job as a guide for that summer break.
And I went and mapped a lot of the hours and talked to a lot of people.
The truth is, the industry of fly fishing and guiding, and especially international travel destination, because back then the market of local anglers that would hire a guide was almost non-existent, right?
So the only alternative to be guiding were coming to Argentina in search of that trip of a lifetime. So, you know, I wasn't really getting any opportunities.
It was a way smaller industry of what it is today.
And and so I, you know, I told myself, OK, I'm not going to I want to be a guy.
And I want to do this seriously for my life. So I said, I'm going to start getting my own clients so I can be able I'm going to be able to guide them.
You know, and that's that's kind of the beginning of everything.
And I was my first days of guiding career.
It was for the early stages of what we do right now, already getting my own clients and trying to set up a trip for people that were internationally busy in Argentina for getting into fly fishing.
Marvin:
[9:25] Yeah, that's neat. So you basically had to build your own job, right?
Gustavo:
[9:31] I created that own job for me because it was just not the opportunity out there, right?
I mean, it's so different today. It's the kids that first got a whole information of eye level, and they can go and learn as quick as they want, and therefore, what they put is everything is out there to learn.
But then, right away, early in life, they get guiding opportunities, and they get a great job very young. It was way different back then, you know.
It took me a long time to build enough days to be able to go out and have enough clients to be guiding for long days in a row, right, so to say.
Marvin:
[10:12] Yeah, and interesting too, right? Because it sounds like you didn't, you know, it's not like people that are here in the States that maybe go out to like Wyoming or Montana or Colorado and they have all these people kind of showing them the ropes. It sounds like you kind of had to teach yourself how to be a guide.
Gustavo:
[10:28] Well, yeah, again, it was not a lot of people doing it here and it was certainly a lot more unprofessional scene of what it was today.
The truth is, when I got the first clients, I wanted to take them into fishing.
I really didn't want to know or have any formal training of how to do that.
It was just a long, long road of learning from their own experience and listening, actually, to a lot of my clients to see how things supposed to look like or what the service, it was the desire expected to get for an angler coming for an outing.
So yeah, it was a long curve of learning process that it was a company with a lot of desires to do it right. So it was a big motivation of getting the shop done right.
And yeah, so then I later on, you know, I have I was so fortunate that I was starting to receive like really professional guys that I have to.
I was able to look at what they do or and and and start to learning from there how you know, a professional guide should work, what's expected.
And so, yeah, a lot of listening, a lot of desire to want to do that for life.
[11:55] And yeah, and then a team shot, too, because soon enough, since we were working with groups of people coming, I start with other fellows, some of them that they're still part of the of the business that, you know, we kind of start to build knowledge together.
But basically, a lot of listening to our own clients, right?
Marvin:
[12:19] Yeah, very, very neat. Yeah, you were saying someone who's still with you.
I think Gonzalo. I fished with him, gosh, it's been more than 15 years ago.
Gustavo:
[12:27] Yeah, exactly. Well, Gonzalo is just about to turn 40 years, and he started with me in the company when he was 21, right?
And so it's been like 19 years of working together in my mid-twenties when I met him.
So he's kind of a living history of what the company has been and he's like a young brother for me.
Marvin:
[12:53] Yeah, that's very, very neat. And so, you know, all this knowledge you gained from doing all these trips and learning from your guests, you know, what do you think the secret is to being a good guide?
Gustavo:
[13:05] Well, you know, I still repeat that to my team all the time.
And and when I interview a person that is, you know, a candidate to become a guy, first thing you got to do is to love being out there and and, you know, to to be in the nature, to be in the river, in the water and and then to just to plain love fishing and be fishing your passion.
Right. And then the second, but equally as important, you got a lot of people.
You got to be able to enjoy, you know, see people achieving a progress or learning something new at this new trick or getting his first fish on dry fly.
I mean, if you don't gratify for somebody that that's doing that the first time and it makes you to feel like you're doing it again for first time, you're in the wrong business.
Right. I mean, that's, you know, that those two together is what it makes that you are guiding for for many years and it's not just a show and you get just burned out of doing it over and over, right, I mean, that's the passion and enjoying it and being first a passionate person that love being out there fishing and fishing through the arms of your client.
[14:22] Yeah, if you don't have that feeling, you know, you can do it really professionally, but it's gonna be always a benchmark apart from anglers that just do it as a job, right? I mean, the guys that just do it as a job, right?
Marvin:
[14:36] Yeah, and you can always tell when you fish with those people, too. You can always tell the difference.
Gustavo:
[14:42] Yeah, I always tell my guys, you really wanna have more desires of catching that fish than your own client, right?
I mean, you're really gonna, if the guy is looking at the clock to finish the day instead of telling the client, let's take one more cast in that pool, it's something wrong, right?
I mean, also, I mean, it doesn't need to be that serious, too, right?
I mean, I tell my guys all the time, too, if you're out here last on that boat that is next to me, it's something wrong on that boat, right?
I mean, so it's all about having fun and you got to keep on focus on that.
I mean, and it was also different, thanks God, that everyone will find the happiness of a fishing outing in a different way. right? But that's our job as a guide, right?
To find out what's going to make our client happy, our guest, you know, to really enjoy the full experience, I mean, and trying to recreate, right?
Or to deliver and be a facilitator of that good day on the water.
Marvin:
[15:47] Yeah, absolutely. And Gustavo, what do you think is the biggest misconception and people have about the life of a fishing guide.
Gustavo:
[15:55] Well, you know, it's the easy thing if people we get to like, wow, how beautiful your office is.
I mean, you truly don't have any, any, any concerns in life because you're doing what you love to do, like any shop, right? I mean, it has this up and down and you get all kinds of people.
Thanks God, you know, and we are fortunate to make a lot of friends out of this and meet some fabulous people, but some days are long, some days you got to put up with bad weather.
We hear the way we guide in Argentina because the consumption of an international travel destination, the people come like from Saturday to Saturday, you start guiding on Sunday, you fish your Friday, and then, you know, it's a day off typically in today's schedule for our guides.
Sunday, you get a another full gang of guys that are ready to roll again, all rested.
And this goes on for like six or seven months.
Right. I mean, so it could be tiring, but yeah, I you you really I mean, if you have the passion, it is a great shot.
[17:07] For life, right, I mean, we we have some some guys on on the team that they're in the mid-50s for 30 years and they're still passionate about it, right?
I mean, you got to find the good balance of scattering or sparsing your season and not overdo it, so you're still able to enjoy that day by day.
Marvin:
[17:30] Yeah, absolutely. And so kind of, you know, after you started guiding, you know, When did you start Andy's Drifters?
Gustavo:
[17:40] Well, you know, it's as I told you, my first guiding clients were already in the beginnings of the company.
You know, we were originally we were under a different name and not only till like 2009, I think I, you know, when and not when I met because I met Kevin Howell like a couple of years before that.
But in 2009, I I make a proposal to Kevin to become partners.
And together we kind of bring up the name of Andes Drifters and started with the continuation of a operation that was started originally in 1999.
Right. So we were already 10 years of history when when we started with with Andes Drifters as a continuation of that that original, you know, company and the early guiding days, right?
Marvin:
[18:35] Yeah, that's neat. It reminds me I'm going to have to go grab the fishing hat to get the original name of the company. It's been so long. I thought it I had forgotten that Andy's Drifters was the second iteration of your company.
Gustavo:
[18:46] Yeah, yeah. The original name of the company was Solomon Crossout Feeders when we started, right? Ninety nine.
Marvin:
[18:53] Yeah. It's all coming back to me now, everything booking the tickets and everything.
And so for people that have never been to Patagonia, you want to kind of give them a feeling for kind of how the trout fishing is different from say fishing here in the United States in Montana or Wyoming.
Gustavo:
[19:10] Well, it's a phrase that has been, since I was a kid, I listened to it, but it's still, I believe it's a fact, right?
I mean, many people have said through the years that, you know, Patagonia, especially Northern Patagonia, is very much like it was Montana 50 or 100 years ago, right?
I mean, it's a lot of great water, great dry fly fishing, side fishing opportunities.
[19:36] Plenty of only wild trout that populate all our rivers, big rivers that you can float, small like pocket water, medium-sized rivers.
We have Great Lakes, we have Spring Creek, so a lot of variety of water, but way less people around here.
Even when in the last 30 years they grow, it's a continued growing number of anglers.
I mean, compared to the western United States, you know, we still get into a day float section here in one of our famous and easy access rivers, like the Chimowin, the Lumine or the Cushankura, and we still get upset when it's a couple more boats putting in the same stretch we're going to float, right?
I mean, so that's just to set a standard that still the fishing pressure from many places around the world here in the most famous area around San Martino, fly fishing in Argentina, still the presence of people and the development of the area still a lot behind of what the standards of many places in the United States.
Marvin:
[20:48] It's funny you say that while you were saying that I was sitting there going through my head about the you know when you talk to the shuttle drivers like on the Madison about how many shuttles they would run on a busy weekend and you hear them talking about running like 60 or 80 shuttles.
So although I will say I've probably had my fishing license checked more that time I was fishing with you guys in Argentina than I have in my entire fishing career.
Gustavo:
[21:13] Yeah, our fishing rangers typically are active and into checking on people and going around.
So yeah, we're kind of proud of the way that the fisheries are protected here.
I mean, sometimes they do an important job. Yeah.
Marvin:
[21:30] Yeah. And so, we'll get to set in a minute, but so Andy's Drifters was around for what, about 15 years?
Know, why don't you let folks know kind of how it evolved over that time period?
Gustavo:
[21:43] Well, you know, it's a, it's a long process, right?
I mean, since from the original company to Anders Rifter, we were basically an outfitter that was a guiding service and we used to, and we still do prepare like three itineraries to cover different fishery areas with different fishing styles, different parts of the season.
And we make those packages that include everything, so that people coming from far have everything resolved from lodging and meals and getting your fishing license, even supply gear when it was needed.
[22:19] But as the year continued to go over, we find the need to be in control more in everything that was involved in the process.
So we incorporated the lodging portion and we started managing our own lodges and actually with the experiences of being on the guiding service and knowing all the area here in northern Patagonia in very deep detail.
[22:44] We kind of selected locations for our lodges that everyone it was a location for lodging that it was selected to deliver a unique experience into a week program.
So now the locations of our lodges are just to serve a special program that we have envisioned to make it unique on the zone.
So we, in the current days, we ran three different lodges in the Neuquén province, in northern Patagonia, and each one of these lodges is located to serve a unique location and reach specifical fisheries that compound a whole different experience from each other right in between our three lodges so like if you could do three different trips through each one of these lodges and you will be fishing absolutely different waters and absolutely different fishing styles techniques and will be a whole different experience even when all of this are located in northern Tarragona.
[23:51] And then, you know, back actually, you know, a year after we started Andes Drifters, we Kevin, we went into a big exploratory in Argentina for Dorado.
You know, I love Golden Dorado since probably was 17 years old when I got my first Golden Dorado experience.
So since the early, early days that I was guiding for trout, I thought, you know, people that come to Argentina gotta get into a Dorado fishing because it's just such a unique fish.
So back in 2009, we did this tour fishing for Golden Dorado in several different locations, and we met who our partner is right now, Andres Martinez, that runs the Golden Dorado operation of the company.
So, yeah, we incorporated another portion of operation, a whole different team, a whole different set of guys, their specialty fishing for golden dorado.
And now, you know, we run up there in the northeastern part of Argentina in the Corrientes province. We run three different lodges with the same concept.
Properties that have been in place to, you know, for any specific experience in each one of the different fisheries that they are near from.
Marvin:
[25:19] Yeah, very, very neat. And so, you know, you did that exploratory trip kind of in the late 2000s. What made you decide within the last year or so that you wanted to merge with Piranha on the Fly?
Gustavo:
[25:34] Well, really, when we met our partner then, they were just, I mean, actually, it was kind of, you know, uh, various spontaneous kind of build up because we, you know, uh, when we met the, they were guiding in the native town near Rosario, a lot closer from Buenos Aires.
And it was one day outing. We did with them after fishing with three different golden Dorado operations that we really didn't like, or we really, the people that we met was not the match that we were ambition with Kevin to partner with and to run an operation.
And then we really, uh, met with Marcelo Caligari, which was it is for years has been partnered with with Andres and, and, uh, and talking with them said, I fish a lot on the, on the Corrientes province and up there in what we call the upper Paraná river.
Uh, and he's that's water is home from the largest golden Dorados anywhere.
[26:30] Right. I mean, so we said, okay, but, uh, you know, we, we, we, you are the kind of person we want to partner with.
And so we talk, uh, you know, we, we talk that early year and he didn't work hard for three, four years for personal commitments they have.
And then Marcelo met Andres, they partnered together and, and, uh, and back in 2012, they were, we were ready to launch our, our first lodge in what's today Tati Lodge in the Upper Parana.
And, and, and really, uh, you know, we, you know, we kind of grew together and they put their name to the company running the Golden Dorado operation was Paraná on the fly.
And you know, as, as the thing continued to grow, we were working as a unity.
We were in charge of, uh, letting international anglers know about the program.
And we kind of transition of, uh, the know-how of how to run the business and build the team.
And they were setting up the property, putting nice up there in Itati Lodge.
[27:34] Really we're working as a unity for years and a.
But with two different names. So it was very confusing for people to know, well, how is Engineers Drifters related to Paranormal Fly and how we're going to communicate the uniqueness that we run all these programs, but we have two different names.
So really, we talked this for several years, but when the pandemic hit and we're in the middle of lockdown, or right a week after we were locked down here in Argentina, We started with the brainstorming of what's the new name of the company.
You got to be because we need an umbrella brand, a company name that represent all what we do and get us together.
It really was really a continuation of what we have been doing for for the previous years. And that's where we decided to create Set Fly Fishing.
What the company it is today. Right. I mean, it was a continuation of what we've been doing.
And that date, right?
Marvin:
[28:35] Yeah, very neat. And you know, so, you know, it's interesting.
We talked a little bit about this when we did the prep for the interview, but I was really kind of curious if you wanted to share with folks, you know, why you think Dorado have become such a popular species for anglers to target on the fly.
Gustavo:
[28:53] Well, I told you, you know, I got really, really triggered and in love with Dorado when I was, you know, almost a teenager. I was 17 years old.
Dorado is such a unique species of fish. I mean, I always tell people, imagine a fish that is geared up on its jaws to have the power of a shark and the speed of striking as only a barracuda can do.
I mean, the Dorado, you see the big head and big jaws, they are designed to eat on sabalo, their main prey.
And sabalo is a vegetarian fish that eats algae and debris from the bottom of all the fisheries where are habitated for Dorado, and this Sabalo is not just a fry or a prey fish, it's a prey for Dorado, but they get up to four, five, six pounds, so they are big fish.
And the Dorado can get into a Sabalo that is five, six pounds and trim it in half in a couple of seconds.
Sometimes you see them hunting team into schools of Savalos and rip them between two Dorados ripping apart into half a fish and blood is on the water.
[30:13] Uh, and you know, they, when they decide to strike, they're so in charge, they're the apex predator in the system that sometimes they eat each other or, or a shoe and needle or a smaller version of themselves.
Right. I mean, yeah, It commonly happens that you hook into a five, six pound dorado and another fish that is 25, 20 pounds come and eat in half the dorado you have on, right?
I mean, that's how much they are in charge on that system, right?
I mean, and it is such a...
The way they take the fly, I mean, I tell people as the rally's.
[30:53] It's not super technically demanding, but it's mentally demanding.
It's a game of focus, right? Every strip that you're going to take and pull your line, you've got to be focused.
And when you move the hand to grab the next chunk of line to strip it in, because they are going to come as a gold lightening.
You're going to see we fish for Dorado, you know, 95% on floating line.
And you see the fish coming from an ambushing, hiding position.
It's just a golden light that grabs your line and just takes it out of your hand. So every strip you got to keep on focus and they're going to happen when you're not expecting it and you got to keep your rod low because this is a strip set.
It's pretty much a lot like a saltwater fish, right? I mean even when it's a freshwater species in a freshwater, you know, river systems.
But it's really indescribable.
[31:49] It's just comparable to nothing else.
Yeah, it's an addictive game. I always prevent people, you know, the problem with Dorado is once you try it, you're going to fish it for many, many trips. So if you are not willing to do that, don't even come try, it.
Marvin:
[32:08] And so if you're trying to basically imitate a four to six pound baitfish, what do the tackle and tactics look like when you target Dorado?
Gustavo:
[32:17] Well, how are you going to imitate a six-pound fish, right?
There's no way, right? I mean, I like to start describing the Dorado for their feeding behavior and the way they feed because that kind of sets apart the Dorados and species.
It's not an easy fish to catch, especially when you are going into sizes that go over eight or 10 pounds, right?
I mean, an eight, 10-pound fish is when a Dorado reaches to adult, right?
When they're in juvenile or a smaller size, in two to four pounds, they need to be more aggressive and continuously feeding, what a riffle rainbow will do, right? I mean, they're eating all the time.
When they get into bigger, as they are such an in-charge apex predator, they will only feed in certain windows and when the conditions are to eat big and go home, right?
I mean, so that's why you need a lot of focus into fishing for golden dorado.
But basically, the gear you use is an A-weight because these fish are ambushing and they're in structure.
[33:24] Even in some of the environments that we fish, the water is crystal clear.
You do not see the fish until the fish is into an attacking mode.
Is two-year fly or hunting for for a natural prey they are gonna be ambushed and blend into structure and and they're just going to come out for for your.
[33:49] That nature of approaching to the fishing situation makes that you're casting a lot.
So we only use an 8-weight. We don't go to any rod that's bigger than 8-weight because in difference to saltwater in the flats where you are only casting when an actual fish that you're seeing, here you're casting like a lot, right?
I mean, and so you're going to have a big fly that has a big profile, but it's as light as possible because you're going to be casting a a lot and you want to conserve your shoulder through the shortening, right?
So 8-weight and a floating line, typically, you know, I say that the most famous golden dorado fly is called the Andino deceiver.
The typical Andino deceiver, it was designed to be fishing the lower sections of the Paraná where the water is dirtier than any of the fisheries that we fish.
[34:45] So that original Dino Deceiver has a very thick collar of a muddler head with a lead eye.
Here, the way we like to build our Long Deceivers are a big hook.
First you need a big hook. Typically our favorite hook is a Makatsu SL12 and 4-0 and 6-0.
So they're big hooks to give a good navigation to the fly.
And then there are saddle feathers, long ones, you know, a little bit of bucktail and a little bit of a picot hurl, a little bit of bright, you know, it could be one or the other.
And then, and then we, we need to do that baller head, but basically it's a very sparse collared over a set of eye chain, chain eyes.
So it's very, very light, doesn't have any added weight.
Is heavy for the big hook and a little bit balanced on the head for these eyes of chain and that's the typical receiver that we'll use typically up to six or eight inches long, so a long fly, but...
[35:56] Easy to cast, loads very little water.
We don't use that typical big, musky streamers that load a lot of water because we're going to be casting a lot.
And yeah, that's a typical receiver.
We then we use in some of our fisheries, we use a lot of, we use a lot of surface patterns like mices and large crease flies or tee walks with foam heads that are kind of sort of popping or you know or you know giving the the trace on the on the surface of the water so that's uh that's kind of the basic gear that flies and rods and what you use a tropical line because it's a it's a tropical environment right i mean so it has to be a tropical a weight i mean there are today there are a very good design of a specific fly lines with they have enough of the wade forward torpedo that they're really a lot of help to turn over the big flies so the different brands have come with special shingle or dorado version lines that specifically designed for these big flies but any kind of a power, wave forward, torpedo, salt water, line, it will make the work.
Marvin:
[37:16] Got it. And so, you know, you made it really clear we're going to be casting a lot, but you know, what is a typical day fishing for Dorado with set look like?
Gustavo:
[37:26] Well, it is, you know, as I was telling you, we have three different locations that we fish for through Dorado and the type of fishing and the type of technique we use in each of the destination kind of set the day standards.
[37:44] We, you know, like in Nittati Lodge in the big river where we fish for like some of the really biggest Dorados on earth there.
We are like from the rooms at the lodge, we are only like 30 yards to the dock.
So you walk, you get into the boat And in five minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, depending where you're going, you're right into fishing.
So it's very easy commute to get to be actually fishing. And there we fish like very early in the morning.
Like we get into the water.
With the very first clarity, to be able to cast with the really first light already being in fishing situation, and then we come back for lunch and have a break by noon with the air conditioning, typically it's a tropical environment, and then to be rested and full of energy for the sunset time because, you know, this really, especially in in this fishery where we're targeting for these really huge dorados, those end beginning and end of the day times are the best moment where they're going to be likely to be active, these monster fish.
[39:01] And so there it is in this stream of the days where we really need to go.
But then when we go to the Iberá wetlands, We, you know, we've been fortunate, like in 2018, to be selected by the Argentina government, really the provincial government in Corrientes, to be the solo outfitter operating in the vast, huge pieces of water of the land that Douglas Tompkins, you know, the founder of North Face, but now into with the rewilding project and his foundation, he donate, buy from private property and donate it to the government to create a national park.
And we were, you know, we were selected to be the outfitter working on this as the only operation in this huge water system.
[39:55] Here, you get into an access and go into a very integrated set of channels and lagoons and go deeper and deeper in the system.
So we go out there for an outing of all day.
We leave in the morning, whatever, 8.30 from the lodge and we get in.
Actually, we have stable camps and cabins that we have built inside the reservation.
And so you go out for two or three days of fishing, overnighting inside in the deep part of the wilderness and with no human presence. So very different one destination from the other.
And this past year we have added a third destination at Chetou Cabana Esteros, which is another wetland system, but this is a spillover ramification of the Paraná, the middle Paraná River section, and it's over a hundred miles of water that gets filtrated.
Into this floodplain area that's called the Isoro Wetlands.
[40:58] We have located Chetú Cabañas right in the heart of the Isoro Wetland, which is by nature a big nursery area for Dorado. I don't know if...
I'm going to tell you, I'm going to extend me a little bit, make a pause here and tell you a little bit about the Dorado spawning system, because it will make sense up there to the whole story, right?
Up there in the Itatiloch, the first of the destinations that I was telling you, it is the area where a big migration of Dorados coming from the whole Parana system come in the late spring and early summer for spawn season.
But the spawning, it really happened in a way that is only successful when there is a flooding or really high water level because the Dorado, you know, migrates and accumulates.
First, it really, before the Dorado, it's the Sábalo that is accumulating and coming together in the middle of the river. The Sábalo start spawning.
The way they spawn is on the middle of the river in the current.
The female of the Sábalo gets kind of belly up and swims in circle, making a very low noise, like croaking of frogs, but lower.
[42:20] And the males of a savalo are kind of crossing their bellies and grabbing the bellies to stimulate the spawning.
After, you know, we've seen this happening, you know, we're talking, the concentration of fish is just phenomenal.
It's kind of like millions and millions of individuals, we're seeing this spawning of savannah happening for like two miles length of the river for probably over half a mile wide.
The Perna is the fourth largest flow of water in the entire world, right? So it's twice the Mississippi, it's across sometimes four miles.
[42:56] So this huge mass of fish spawning in the middle of the river, and after we've seen this for a day happening, the dorado starts spawning on the perimeter of that, right?
And sort of the same deal, like the female dorado makes like a whale.
The really big, big dorados are females and the males are smaller.
So these females dorados are coming out of the water like a whale, you know, kind of have their body out of the water and you see two or three big male dorados are grabbing their belly again, like to stimulate that spawning.
And they, it's funny because while they're their first and main target for food, when this is happening, you don't see dorados are crashing into savalos.
They're so vulnerable in that situation, right? It is like something sacred is happening and they respect each other.
And the reason they're generally designed to do it that way, because of reason, right? I mean, they spawn and the eggs of the dorados are released.
And when they hatch in the middle of the river, they fried of...
[44:08] Well, they really get released and inseminated in the middle of the river.
But they need that flood level of water because they need to be drift into the flood plains where they're going to hatch and they're going to be able to survive afterwards.
So instead of having a spawning bed, they're going to have to be dragged, drifted out to the, you know, the flooded areas of the sides of the main river to be able to survive.
And the curiosity, it is that this, the, the Dorado, when he, when he hatched the egg, the, the fried of the Dorado has a beetling sac, like the trout has it, that it lasts for like 48 days of that sift.
[44:48] The middling sack is a food reserve that allows the fish to survive without having to eat.
In trout it's 48 days. In Dorado it's 48 hours. So they need to be quickly in these flood plain areas because they're going to start eating on larbs and bugs and, you know, some small organism.
But as early as like two or three weeks old, they're going to start eating on the the pride of Zabalo because they're spawning on the same time and as early as two weeks they become their main food, right?
I mean, and so coming back to the history, the Isuro Wetland, our third lodge, is one of these flood plains, this big marsh area, it is a natural nurse for Dorado.
So it has bazillions of Dorados that are growing in sizes between two to five, six, seven pounds.
And so that becomes the Chetuka Wani Asteros.
Ideal destinations for those that are breaking into gold and dorado fishing to get into numbers and get trained with that strip setting.
[45:56] So every one of our destinations is a completely different environment.
You know, the fishing gets achieved with a very different technique and a whole different experience from each other.
And because of the nature of the sometimes unpredictable or changeable conditions to the fishery, and because of the behavior of the Dorado moving into the river system to different locations that sometimes is more or less available to be able to fly fish it, we have decided to, you know, to design our week of fishing split between two of these three destinations.
So we split the week in three days on one lodge and three days on the other, and we kind of make the call before the trip which one of the situations we're going to fish to hit the best fishing conditions.
So that's the uniqueness of our program. We haven't really been another golden Dorado program in the market that has that degree of flexibility to chasing what's really fishing best on the high-level conditions of this region, right?
Marvin:
[47:11] Really interesting, and so do you predominantly fish to structure or are there site fishing opportunities as well?
Gustavo:
[47:17] Well, again, you know, the site fishing opportunities, anywhere on the rattle, it is when the fish are currently attacking or going for preys.
But many times when they're before that happening, when they're waiting for the opportunity, they're ambushing and hiding.
So, your fishing structure, because of the nature they feed on, it is very occasionally when you can side fish into a fish that you're seeing into a hunting mode or crashing bay fish or something like that.
Marvin:
[47:49] Yeah, got it. And, you know, I know that they're Dorado kind of spread out in South America and Central America.
How is Dorado fishing in Argentina different from other countries?
Gustavo:
[48:00] Well, it is the design, I mean, it's determined because of the morphology of the structure of the rivers.
Like the other big destinations today for golden dorado fishing is Bolivia and the streams on the Xango.
And really the type of streams where golden dorado fishing in Bolivia is, it attracts so many people because it's so beautiful environments and reminds, like everybody's in fly fishing or like a big percentage of people in small fishing have started as a trout angler, right?
I mean, and some of those Dorado streams in Bolivia, they remind everybody they really look like a beautiful trout stream, right?
But, you know, the behavior of the fish and the fishing style, it doesn't have to do anything what you will do trout fishing because they are Dorado, right? I mean, so everything that I described before applies to the smaller stream.
And the Dorado by nature being that apex predator, it is a very sensitive fish that can perceive anything on a stream. When you translate that into a small...
[49:08] Size stream, it makes the fishing in those pristine, clear streams to be like super difficult.
I mean, like the movement, when you spook even the smaller baitfish or a school of savannas, they will make you feel, you know, feel your presence because of the disturbance that you are creating in the environment.
So that makes the fishing even more challenging when you get into the smaller streams.
And also the nature of the mountain streams, it determines a lot of physical efforts because there are big rock boulders areas and you gotta walk and hike from a pool to the next pool, right?
I mean, all our fisheries and the three different locations that we fish in Argentina are done from skiffs.
Bigger ones that we have where we have a mean cut, you know, remote control and smaller ones where we push paw and it's only one angler in the bow fishing on the Ibera wetlands.
[50:10] But it's all from the comfort of the boat and where you can easily ride back in a couple of the destination to the lodge.
But where the whole general experience is a lot more physically enjoyable or a little easier physically demanding than than hiking up in a monsoon stream.
So the main differences are determined by the nature of the geography where these fisheries are located.
Marvin:
[50:41] Got it. And you know, what's your kind of typical Dorado season?
I mean, when does it run? If people wanted to to fish with you when should they plan to come to Argentina.
Gustavo:
[50:49] Well, you know, it's because of the nature of the three locations that we fish.
Really, we can fish for golden dorado year round and really with good results.
If you are going to ask me when is kind of the best time for all the fisheries combined, we really love to talk about the shoulder season.
And the shoulder season means like springs and and falls opposite here but you know that time of the year when it's enough warm but it's not the middle of summer that gets too warm because you know in our fisheries in the middle of summer it could be like fishing on the Florida Keys in in July right I mean it's humid and it's very warm so the shoulder season still gives you that that warm temperatures that there are like, because by nature a tropical fish, but it makes a little more enjoyable in weather.
And we're talking from mid-September till mid-December, and then from mid-late February through early May kind of thing. That's kind of when the really big season of our fisheries are.
Marvin:
[52:04] Got it, and you know the great thing, we haven't even touched on this, but you've really built out your ecotourism and your your hunting options, because you've also got WOW Argentina and Andino Hunt.
And I think when I fished with you guys, you were offering red stack hunting, but you've got tons of stuff and all kinds of outings, particularly if someone wants to bring someone who doesn't want to fish. You want to let folks know a little bit about those? Sure.
Gustavo:
[52:24] Absolutely. Yeah. Some of our lodges specialty are like having couples and families because of the offer that we have right there at the lodges with a unique game of different opportunities and activities that will make the vacation for a non-angling person to be as enjoyable that you know a hardcore angler good.
So they're really, really unique. But then at WOW!
Argentina what we do is really design programs that are tailor-made and thought out for each of our guests to really have a unique experience exploring the highlights of the different areas of the country, whatever you think, Glacier Fells and Interior del Fuego or visiting the wine country in Mendoza, just exploring a couple of days with great guides and absorbing the culture in Buenos Aires or seeing the Iguazú Falls.
Argentina is a huge country with a whole different game of ecosystems and scenery, right?
I mean, you think about Argentina from south to north is almost as long as the United States from east to west coast.
So many people do not really have, you know, the meanings of how big Argentina it is, but it's really the eighth largest world.
[53:49] And being in territory surface right i mean so it's a very extended country that you have a lot to uniqueness to see and discover plus the whole cultural the gastronomy in argentina we're very influential by the you know the italian and spanish cuisine so eating and our gastronomy is a big part of our culture so if you enjoy you know the gastronomy the culinary side of the the travel experience, you know, you're going to get pleased in Argentina, right?
Of course, big in the saddle and cooking on the open fire, but big in wines, you know, we have such a great variety of wines.
[54:28] And, you know, beside all these unique trips, we tried every one of our trips, you know, whatever it's called in Dorado or trout to be a culture and immersion, right?
I mean, besides to spoil you, expose you to really cool fishing opportunities, Really, we try to that that fishing trip to be just more than just a great fishing trip, but that you get a little bit of that culture of the country from the food and the wine, but also by bringing entertainment in.
And we have people that comes to dance tango and some of the folkloric music and play instrument and sing.
And yeah, so it's, we try to build on a lot of add-ons that makes the whole experience, the whole, you know, trip an entire experience, right?
I mean, and so on the other side, as you mentioned, we, you know, right now we kind of up the game from, we have been running stack, RedStack hunting since that early as you were here, like quite a few years ago.
[55:36] And we have now been running our own entire ranch that we manage for stag hunting.
And this has been eight years, we're managing this 30,000 acre ranch where we have an amazing wild population of red stag.
And it really is a very, very unique program and that we have many people that repeat them and are regular with this trip.
Marvin:
[56:07] You've got waterfowl, you've got upland bird hunting, right?
And you've got dove hunting too, UI.
Gustavo:
[56:13] Yeah, right here in Patagonia, where we do stag hunting, there's an opportunity to quail hunt. We have Californian quail that have been introduced in Narwhal here in the area for many decades.
And then we set up opportunities to dove hunt and waterfall stag hunting in other locations of Argentina, and doves too, that we can put it together as an addition of any of our regular programs.
Marvin:
[56:47] Yeah, and it's great too, right? Because people have to remember that the seasons are reversed, and so if you really want to hunt, but you can't hunt in the United States, you can fly down to Argentina and hunt and fish.
Gustavo:
[56:56] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The opportunities are countless and actually we try to give the people excuses to come back to see us with different programs each time.
So that's kind of the vision of what Set-Fly Fishing and our other companies are.
Marvin:
[57:16] Yeah, very neat. And so if folks wanted to get more information about your trips and your other offerings, where should they go?
Gustavo:
[57:24] Well, you can reach us at our website at setflyfishing.com, or you can reach us and follow us on the social media platforms and Instagram, especially at Set Fly Fishing.
Each one of the lodges have their own Instagram.
And you're welcome to get on the phone or meet us at one of the presentations.
We are going to be, and we regularly are, traveling across the United States and presenting at local shops and clubs. So yeah, so everyone is welcome to come and talk about fishing. We always like that.
Marvin:
[58:02] Yeah, and I suspect we'll see you on the fly fishing show circuit in 2024, right? Yeah, absolutely.
Gustavo:
[58:10] We're already scheduled to do some of the biggest shows, all the same that we did last year.
Jersey and Atlanta and Denver and Pleasanton and we're working on on a couple more that that they're going to be closed down on the next few weeks so.
Marvin:
[58:29] Oh very neat and Gustavo before I let let you go this evening.
Is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners?
Gustavo:
[58:36] Well, you know, I want to invite everybody that hasn't been for, you know, for a visit in Argentina.
You know, we're very friendly country with a high degree of hospitality, a very influential work for European culture.
So don't be afraid. I mean, it's South America, but it's a it's a very friendly country that will receive you with a, you know, open arms and, uh, where you will come to be really build friends and memories for life.
Marvin:
[59:09] Yeah. And it's, it's so easy to get to, like we talked about before, no jet lag, fly to Buenos Aires, transfer to the airport and fly South and you're an hour ahead and you don't feel horrible. Yeah.
Gustavo:
[59:20] Yeah, absolutely. It's, as you said, he's a easy commute. It's a long flight, but it's overnight and it's no time difference.
Plus, you know, what we do, actually, we have this travel, you know, agency department inside our own company that from the time that you start asking about what it can do, this timeframe, what the program that you recommend, we're going to be a hand-on experience.
We're going to assure you have a hassle-free experience through the time you leave your home till after the trip and getting back home.
We're going to be hands-on, accompany all the way in every single stage, make it very, very easy. You can travel light. We can provide you gear.
So make a whole full enjoyment experience.
Marvin:
[1:00:08] Very, very neat. And Gustavo, I really appreciate you spending some time with me this evening, and hopefully I'll get to see you on your upcoming trip to the States.
Gustavo:
[1:00:17] Okay, absolutely. Marvin, thanks. Thanks to you for having me.
It's always a pleasure to have a little bit of history and fishing, so anytime.
Thanks to all the audience.
Marvin:
[1:00:28] Absolutely. Take care.
Intro:
[1:00:31] Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.
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Nightlines, everybody.