Transcript: PODCAST INTERVIEW: Family and Fly Fishing with Kisha Atkin
S5, Ep 119: Family and Fly Fishing with Kisha Atkin
Kisha Atkin, angler and Momma Angler, talks about her angling journey, love for fly fishing, and the fly fishing community. Discussed topics include mentoring, favorite fishing spots, and trying new things.
2023
http://www.thearticulatefly.com
In this episode of The Articulate Fly, I am joined by Kisha Atkin, an angler and Momma Angler. We discuss Kisha's angling journey, her love for fly fishing and fly tying, and the unique aspects of the fly fishing community. Before the interview, I express gratitude to the Outdoor Writers Association of America for recognizing our podcast and celebrate the five-year anniversary of The Articulate Fly. Kisha shares her earliest fishing memory at a small pond in Arizona and talks about her family's involvement in fly fishing. We then discuss how they discovered fly fishing while living in an RV after losing their home in Hurricane Harvey. Kisha explains how they learned fly fishing and fell in love with the sport. Mentoring has played a significant role in their journey, and they are grateful for the generous support of the fly fishing community. They talk about their experiences with mentors and how they have shaped their foundation in fly fishing. They also express gratitude for the helpfulness of authors like Pat Dorsey and Charlie Craven. Fly fishing has become an integral part of their lives, and they spend a significant amount of time on the water each year. They discuss their travels to fishing destinations and their favorite fishing destination, Yellowstone National Park. They share their tips for maximizing fishing time and creating a fun and engaging experience for kids learning fly fishing. They also talk about the impact of fly fishing on their family and the valuable life lessons their children have learned from the sport. Kisha shares her passion for fly tying and the influence of various talented fly tiers. She emphasizes the importance of learning from others, being open to criticism, and constantly seeking improvement. She offers tying tips and her favorite tools and materials. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the value of trying new things and not being afraid to make mistakes in the learning process. Kisha encourages listeners to get outdoors, spend time with family, and enjoy nature. Marvin thanks Keisha for joining the conversation and mentions that her Instagram handle will be included in the show notes. The episode concludes with an invitation to support the podcast by subscribing, leaving ratings and reviews, and wishing everyone tight lines.
Generated Shownotes
Chapters
0:00:04 Introduction0:03:51 Kisha's Family's Introduction to Fly Fishing
0:11:00 Phil and Steve: Early Mentors and Invitation to Colorado
0:14:33 The Generosity of the Fly Fishing Community
0:28:15 Camping by the Water and Prioritizing Fishing Time
0:31:26 Fly Fishing's Impact on Family and Life in a Tech-centric World
0:37:13 Fly Fishing Community as a Support System for Kids
0:51:05 The Importance of Asking Questions and Seeking Information
0:55:03 Learning from Mistakes and Trying Something New
1:00:55 Favorite Tools and Materials in Fly Tying
1:04:12 The Limitations of Not Tying Flies
1:07:02 The Outdoors: Changing Lives and Creating Memories
Long Summary
In this episode of the Articulate Fly, I am joined by Keisha Atkin, an angler and mama angler. We discuss Keisha's angling journey, her love for fly fishing and fly tying, and the unique aspects of the fly fishing community.Before the interview, I express gratitude to the Outdoor Writers Association of America for recognizing our podcast and celebrate the five-year anniversary of the Articulate Fly.
Keisha shares her earliest fishing memory at a small pond in Arizona and talks about her family's involvement in fly fishing. We then discuss how they discovered fly fishing while living in an RV after losing their home in Hurricane Harvey. Keisha explains how they learned fly fishing and fell in love with the sport. Mentoring has played a significant role in their journey, and they are grateful for the generous support of the fly fishing community. They talk about their experiences with mentors and how they have shaped their foundation in fly fishing. They also express gratitude for the helpfulness of authors like Pat Dorsey and Charlie Craven.
Fly fishing has become an integral part of their lives, and they spend a significant amount of time on the water each year. They discuss their travels to fishing destinations and their favorite fishing destination, Yellowstone National Park. They share their tips for maximizing fishing time and creating a fun and engaging experience for kids learning fly fishing. They also talk about the impact of fly fishing on their family and the valuable life lessons their children have learned from the sport.
Kisha shares her passion for fly tying and the influence of various talented fly tires. She emphasizes the importance of learning from others, being open to criticism, and constantly seeking improvement. She offers tying tips and her favorite tools and materials.
The conversation concludes with a discussion on the value of trying new things and not being afraid to make mistakes in the learning process. Keisha encourages listeners to get outdoors, spend time with family, and enjoy nature.
Marvin thanks Keisha for joining the conversation and mentions that her Instagram handle will be included in the show notes. The episode concludes with an invitation to support the podcast by subscribing, leaving ratings and reviews, and wishing everyone tight lines.
Brief Summary
In this episode of the Articulate Fly, we are joined by Keisha Atkin, an angler and mama angler. We discuss Keisha's angling journey, her love for fly fishing and fly tying, and the unique aspects of the fly fishing community. Topics include mentoring, favorite fishing destinations, fly tying tips, and the value of trying new things. Stay tuned for an invitation to support the podcast and tight lines to all!Tags
Articulate Fly, Keisha Atkin, angling journey, fly fishing, fly tying, unique aspects, mentoring, fishing destinations, fly tying tips, trying new things, support podcast, tight linesTranscript
Introduction
Intro:
[0:04] Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly.
On this episode, I'm joined by mama angler, Keisha Atkin.
Keisha shares her angling passion. We talk family, fly fishing and fly tying, and we take a deep dive into what makes our fly fishing community such a special place.
I think you're really going to enjoy this one.
But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items.
If you like the podcast, please tell a friend, and please subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.
And two thank yous. I want to thank the Outdoor Writers Association of America for recognizing an episode of The Articulate Fly, part one of our interview with imperfect Texan Buddha Steve Ramirez, and this year's Excellence in Craft Awards in the Fishing Radio Podcast category.
I am truly honored and humbled to be in the company of the other award winners.
A special thank you to Steve Ramirez for trusting me to share his story and taking time away from his busy writing and travel schedule to sprinkle a little of his mojo on me.
And a special thanks to my advertisers, thank you Norvice for being there from the beginning, my guests for their time and their trust, and all of my industry friends for all of their favors, big and small.
All of you have helped me realize my vision for creating content and serving our community.
[1:28] And we recently celebrated our five-year anniversary. We couldn't have done it without the support of the Articulate Fly community.
In five years, we've released over 725 interviews and fishing reports, and none of it would have been possible without our listeners, guests, advertisers, and friends.
Thank you all. Your support means more than you will ever know.
Now, on to the interview.
Marvin:
[1:53] Well, Keisha, welcome to the Articulate Fly.
Kisha:
[1:56] Hey, thank you so much for having me.
Marvin:
[1:58] Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. You know, we've been trying to kind of make this happen for a while. And, you know, we have a tradition on the Articulate Fly.
Ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.
Kisha:
[2:11] Earliest fishing memory that has to be when I was about eight or nine somewhere in that time frame.
You know I grew up I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona and boy it's hot down there.
I was a tomboy to the max and I hung out with with the boys and hang out with any of the girls did all the guy stuff.
[2:30] But we had this really small family cabin in Flagstaff, Arizona which is about two and a and a half hours from where we lived in Phoenix, and it was 7,000 feet or higher elevation, and we went up there all the time to get away from the heat.
And so, outside of Flagstaff, there's this little town called Mormon Lake, and that's where our cabin was.
And in the heart of this town, I mean, it's like, I mean, I think there's 50 people that live in the town year round. It is teeny weeny tiny, but there's this very humble gas station right in the heart of this little village and there's a pond there.
And they would stock this pond with just the itty bittiest teeny little trout.
And every time we'd go up there, I mean, that's where you'd find me.
There was no question, where's Keisha? I mean, she's at the pond with her little rod. And that's where I just spent hours and hours just glued to my bobber, just waiting with anticipation for that thing to go underwater.
And I'd catch up a few trout And my grandparents, their cabin was just right across the other side of the pond.
And so I'd run over there at the end of the day and my grandma would, would grill my fish, you know, on the porch and we'd hang out.
And I mean, that we, there was other places to fish around Flagstaff.
I mean, there's a lot of trout, but definitely my earliest memories are centered right there at that teeny weeny little pond.
Kisha's Family's Introduction to Fly Fishing
[3:51] Just very simple, but very, very special.
Marvin:
[3:54] Yeah, very, very neat. And to say that fly fishing is a family affair with the Atkins is an understatement. So can you tell us a little bit about how the Atkin family broke into fly fishing?
Kisha:
[4:06] Yeah, you bet. Definitely an understatement. We're pretty obsessed.
I can readily own that and admit that.
So, fast forward several decades from Mormon Lake, Arizona, and my husband and I, we're married and we have two wildly, crazy, awesome boys and we're living in Texas at this time.
And my kids are 15 and 12 now, but when they were toddlers, they were obsessed with bugs.
And I mean, even more than we are obsessed with fly fishing, it was insane.
I remember bringing Wes home from the hospital and I would catch James, James is older, he'd be in the backyard collecting ladybugs and grasshoppers and he'd smuggle them in the house to try to give to his baby brother.
Just obsessed with bugs. And we taught him how to fish, chasing bass in Texas, they are a riot.
But probably from the age of three, they could cast a spinning rod like a boss.
And they were good and they loved it.
But I think that that world of bass fishing and the passion for bugs, they were just destined to collide at some point. They were going to come together.
And that happened in late 2020.
[5:27] We lost our home in Hurricane Harvey, which is kind of a bummer, but we ended up moving into an RV full-time, trying to just save money and get back on our feet.
And we soon found ourselves spending a lot of time together in a very small space. And so we needed to just find ways to get outside and just find some balance in our lives.
And Chris and I, my husband Chris, we decided man we need to teach our kids how to fish for trout and where can we go and do that and so.
We started doing some research, and we learned that trout fishing in Texas is very limited.
It's very limited. But there is one river here called the Guadalupe River.
It's about three hours away, and you can find trout there. They stock it from about November to the springtime, February, March-ish.
[6:21] And our Trout Unlimited chapter takes care of that for us. But a lot of the spots on that river were fly fish only. So we're like, man, if we're going to get out and do this, we've got to learn how to fly fish. And so, by golly, we did, all four of us.
We jumped in all the way. We bought waders and boots and very inexpensive rods, and we just said, I know we're going to love this. And we weren't wrong.
I won't say it's not the purest form of fly fishing here in Texas.
It is a very unique thing to fish the Guadalupe River in Texas.
And anybody who's been out here and fished the Guad, you know what I'm talking about.
But man, it didn't take us long to figure out we came across something really, really special and something that really meant a lot to us.
And we've pretty much been fly fishing ever since then. I mean, we just have not stopped. I mean, it was lights out, game over.
Started connecting with our fly shop and just off to the races. I mean...
Couldn't stop us if you wanted to, I don't think, at this point.
Marvin:
[7:19] Yeah, and also too, I would imagine, you know, it's probably one of those COVID silver linings too, right? Because you had a chance to, you know, get out and travel around and move around a little bit too. Right, yeah.
Kisha:
[7:30] I mean, a couple COVID on top of the fact of of being inside of an RV with your four kids, you know, it's maybe 400 square feet, you know, and then you're, you know, it's not just like after-school home, you're home all the time.
So, it was a definite silver lining. Absolutely, I agree with that 100%.
Marvin:
[7:46] Yeah, and so is trout the species of choice or do you have something else that's like your number one preference to chase on the fly?
Kisha:
[7:55] You know what, we're so easy to please.
You know, we're out here in Texas and so there are a lot of really exciting species to chase in Texas and we definitely don't limit ourselves.
I mean you have Rio Grande cichlids which are pretty fun and native here in the Hill Country area. You've got bass, panfish, catfish, carp, but we definitely...
I personally love the mountains, me and myself. I love the mountains and I love river fishing. So if you can couple that with a fly rod, I mean, I'm done. I don't need much else. I enjoy all of it.
Nicole C.: Chris probably loves chasing cutthroat in the higher lakes more than other, if he got to choose, you know, but like I said, we're not, we're not real picky.
My, my littlest Wes, um, he will over, you know, a two inch panfish.
I mean, he just, he marvels at them just as he would at his 22 inch. You know, brown trout.
I, he, he, we just truly love it all. So.
Marvin:
[8:55] Yeah, very, very neat. And, you know, can you share with us some of the folks that have mentored you and your family, uh, on your fly fishing journey and kind of some the things they've taught you.
Kisha:
[9:05] Oh, absolutely. Oh my goodness. That is that is definitely one of the aspects of fly fishing that I have come to love and appreciate so so much is is the mentoring and the giving and the you're just the people and the friends that you end up just filling your life with the willingness to help and share and encourage is just it's pretty incredible.
[9:28] It's like a pay it forward type of industry and I love that. So I would have to say, right after our first couple of trips down to the Guadalupe River, my kids started begging for a tying vise, which I mean, shocker, that's not a hard jump there, but all they wanted for Christmas that year was a vise.
And so Santa, he obliged, he brought them a scientific angler tying kit and a book by Pat Dorsey.
And so, you know, they started tying in about February, so give them about eight weeks of tying experience.
We heard about a fly fishing show out here in Texas that was going down and said, Oh my gosh, we got to go. And Pat Dorsey's supposed to be there. We've just got to go.
And so we surprised the kid with tickets and we went out there and.
When we didn't hardly get in the doors and my kids came up to a table of tires and and I'm not exaggerating when I say they must have spent you know the better part of the next three and a half hours at this one table talking to this these two gentlemen that were that were tires um it was Philly Juan and Steve Maldonado um they are signature designers and tires with Uncle Feather their merchants and they were out from Colorado and Texas and they took so much time to talk to us and especially to my kids.
And I would say that was like the hook set right there on their journey.
[10:55] If it wasn't game over already, they didn't stand a chance.
Phil and Steve: Early Mentors and Invitation to Colorado
[11:00] Steve Maldonado was a competitive bass fisherman, so they started drilling him with all kinds of questions about what kind of flies do I need and how do I fish them and where do I go to get this kind of stuff and what kind of hook is it?
I mean, you can't even imagine the questions that they just drilled these two individuals with. And I mean, they were just the nicest guys.
And from there, just this friendship blossomed.
[11:22] We left there, we didn't even find Pat. We couldn't get through to find Pat that day.
But we spent so much time with Phil and Steve and they ended up inviting us, you know, if you're ever in Colorado, come up and fish with us and we did.
A few months later, we came up to Colorado and Phil came out to the river and showed us how to rig and here's how you cast this and here's how you land these.
And he spent all day with us, all four of us, just going around and taking care of us and just always following up.
I mean, just the salt of the earth men. So those were probably our earliest mentors that really got things going. I mean, I can't imagine where we'd be without the knowledge that they gave us right there at the beginning.
But after meeting Phil and Steve, then I started wanting to get into tying.
So it didn't take long before I was hunting down YouTube videos and I came across Charlie Craven's videos and I probably watched every single one of them at least once the first run through.
And I was calling him up before you know it, asking him all kinds of questions and he was so kind to put up with me and everything that I...
I remember one particular time saying, okay, Charlie, I'm looking at this pattern.
I don't know what a furnace feather is. What am I? You're saying I need a furnace feather. What is that? You know, I mean, that's the most basic questions.
And you know, and so bless that man for all that he's done to help me getting into tying.
Keep your poison, some good karma there.
[12:52] Landon Mayer, oh my gosh. Landon has been a godsend for my son James.
[12:59] He has understatedly saved him in so many ways. You know, James fell in love with the mini leech. That was one of the first flies, a confidence fly for James.
And we bumped into Landon at the Denver Fly Fishing Show and James was just so excited to meet him and it did not disappoint.
I mean, so much energy, so much encouragement, so much enthusiasm and Landon really kind of took James under his wing and gave him a lot of coaching, a lot of advice, a lot of tips on rigging, and that only led to even more success on the water and an even greater obsession with the mini leech.
[13:33] We did eventually meet Pat Dorsey, and we bumped into him out here at Trout Fest, and I know my son Wes, the youngest, went up to him and had a question with him about a fly that he ties in his book called the breadcrust.
And so Pat, of course, his questions and talks to him. Well, the next week, there was another event in Texas that Pat was also attending.
And when we went up and shook hands with Pat, he says, you know, Wes, come here, I've got something for you.
And I mean, we're talking about Pat Dorsey. He's just, he's the best of the best. I mean, you would never expect him to be so kind and such a gentleman.
As soon as you meet him, it's like you're instant friends.
And he takes Wes and he says, you know, here's a hen neck, here's all the material that you need to tie the bread crust.
Now let's do it together. I'm going to show you how I trim this feather.
I'm going to show you how I prepare this and prepare that." And they sat down together and tied the bread crust just right then and there on the spot like he was anticipating him to come. I mean, it was just so generous and so kind.
The Generosity of the Fly Fishing Community
[14:33] It's just amazing to me how many people, it's just a hundred moments like that of people just taking the time to teach us and the generosity.
Chris Johnson down in Living Waters Fly Fishing in Round Rock, Texas, local fly shop.
I can't even begin to describe how much he's helped us in our fishing game.
I mean, just all these like micro mentoring experiences that have just catapulted us into so much success.
I mean, it's I'm so, so grateful for everybody. And there's there's tons.
It's just tons of experiences like that that have shaped us and really just solidified our foundation in this amazing, amazing industry.
Marvin:
[15:11] Yeah, it's an amazing thing. I mean, I really truly believe it that you know, I tell people all the time. I think the fly fishing community is one of the most generous communities there is.
Kisha:
[15:20] Oh, absolutely. I mean, I wanted to learn how to euronip and I'm messaging Lance Egan, busy Lance Egan.
He's running fly fish food on Fly Fish Team USA, same with Devin.
You know, hey, what kind of material was that for that leader?
And they're answering me and getting back to me and here's the link and here's that.
It's incredible. I mean, Craig Matthews, one of the first flies I ever tied, the sparkle done.
And he's like, send me some pictures, show me what you're doing.
Okay, tie a few more and send me more pictures.
Try this, try that. I mean, it's just, it's incredible what a beautiful, beautiful community this really is. It's the cheering and the encouragement and in today's world, I mean, that's everything. It's so wonderful. Yeah.
Marvin:
[16:02] Do you know Phil and Steve's nicknames?
Kisha:
[16:07] I probably know more nicknames than I probably should for those two.
I've been around them enough. I'd love to know your nicknames for them.
Marvin:
[16:14] I can tell you. Rat Stinkin' Skeeter.
Kisha:
[16:18] Rat, where did that come from?
Marvin:
[16:20] Oh, that's just something we've been kicking around an idea about doing a podcast series and be the adventures of Rat Stinkin' Skeeter on the Front Range.
Kisha:
[16:27] Rat Stinkin' Skeeter. Well, I tell you what, I'm not surprised that I could think of a hundred things to call them and you hang around them long enough, they're pretty phenomenal people.
I mean, my kids call them Uncle Steve and Uncle Phil. I mean, they're just, they're so wonderful. So wonderful.
Marvin:
[16:44] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and the bookseats you mentioned too.
I think Pat's tailwater book I bought to tie for the tailwaters on the South Holston right here.
And the patterns are great. And then I think Charlie's tying books were phenomenal.
Kisha:
[17:00] Oh, they are.
That's where we've derived so much knowledge. I mean, my kids, their first flies were Pat Dorsey's book.
And that's kind of how we learn is like, hey, just start pying your way through the book, you know, Charlie Craven's Basic Flytying. I mean, it is insane how much incredible and helpful knowledge is in those books.
I mean, they are phenomenal.
I love them. They're pretty well worn out. I've had to tape, Pat's book, I've had to tape together a couple of times in a few different places because it's just been flipped through so often, you know?
Marvin:
[17:34] Yeah, I think the But the great thing about Charlie's book is that there's those first four or five chapters where he really kind of talks about skills.
That I think it's a very different approach like most books.
They try to teach you by going by pattern, right? And he's like here's what you need to know how to do and now we're gonna go. Yes, and it's a really it's techniques Yes, it's super helpful.
Kisha:
[17:56] I Love that. I do too and it was perfect for a beginner like me I mean, of course a lot of them go through the tools and he went through tools But then it was like you need to know how to do this to tie flies like this So let's learn how to do this and we're gonna tie that and then as you move through the book you build on all those skills.
It's like now that you know how to do this, now we can add this to the pattern, you know, and it's it's awesome. It really was tie your way through the book. I loved it.
Marvin:
[18:25] Yeah, and the neat thing too, I always tell people that you'll save multiples of what the book costs just in not buying the wrong stuff to tie with because he goes into a ton of detail about vices, tools, and everything.
Kisha:
[18:38] Yeah, what you need, what you don't need, how to select materials, what your looking for.
Yeah, I love it. Yeah, absolutely.
Marvin:
[18:46] Yeah, so I think we're establishing that your family is eaten up with fly fishing.
And even though you're relatively, I don't know, three years into your adventure, you know, how many days have you guys spent on the water so far this year?
Kisha:
[19:00] You know, we, I would say it's safe to say we spend between, you know, 150 to 200 days on the water during the year, randomly.
It may not be all day, but we touch water at least that number of days.
It's just part of who we are. It's almost like my kids, even this week, this has just been a long week for them and we're going, oh my gosh, they've only been to the little creek behind our house twice this week.
That's just not enough time for them to be outside on the water.
So, yeah, there's definitely an understatement about being eaten up with it.
It's just, it's literally part of what makes us happy. You know, it fills our cup.
Marvin:
[19:47] Yeah, and so, but I mean, to really underscore the point, I think when you told me how many miles you put on the minivan this year, it kind of blew my mind.
You want to share that with our listeners?
Kisha:
[19:56] Yeah, sure.
[19:59] So I would say in a tying season between the start of January to the end of March, right before spring happens, I would say last year we did about 9,000 miles in a tying season.
Just going to fly fishing shows, different tying events across the country, tying.
[20:20] And then over the summer, this past summer, for example, we put over 17,000 miles, you know, the next three months of the year.
So we, our passion, our love just knows no bounds.
I mean, we, it's what we love to do. And so we go and we do it.
I'm so grateful to have found something that we all love.
I mean, I'm never having to, you know, twist anybody's arm, you know, they're literally chomping at the bit, all four of us, you know, filled to the brim with excitement to hit the road and to find a new river, chase a new fish, try different flies or these are hatching or now it's streamer season or it's salmon flies.
I mean, it was an incredible summer, but we definitely put the miles in. My poor van.
We go through a lot of oil changes and a lot of tires, but boy, we've been to some beautiful places and we've had so much fun.
Just the experience, different parts the country. You can't put a price tag on that.
We travel well and we have fun doing it, so I don't see us slowing down anytime soon. It's just what we love. It's easy, it's fun, it's exciting.
Marvin:
[21:31] Yeah, and so what's been your favorite fishing destination of 2023?
Kisha:
[21:37] Oh man, hands down. I mean, not even a contest was Yellowstone National Park.
We did that over the summer.
[21:47] People talk about it. They seem to go on and on talking about it, how wild it is, how beautiful it is.
Well, they're right. And now I get it.
We figured that out this summer. The fishing was tough, but it was so rewarding and so unforgettable.
We We can't wait to go back. The cutthroat were incredible.
What a place. We planned on staying there 10 days.
We're like, we're going to go to the park, we're going to make reservations on this campground, we're going to stay for 10 days.
It's going to be awesome. We can't wait. And we got there.
And when the 10th day came and we were starting to pack up our camp, I mean, we literally, we couldn't leave. We just couldn't bring ourselves to leave. And we're like, we've got to stay longer. We can't be done with this chapter of summer yet.
And so we ended up staying an additional seven days on top of that, just piecing together, finding the campsite here, sneaking in a little spot over here, just kind of all around the park, anywhere we could get a spot.
[22:48] And I'm so glad we did. I'm so glad we did.
I mean, the salmon flies were coming off. You have other stoneflies, golden stones, I mean, just big, big bugs.
I mean, how can you beat 20-inch plus cutthroats on size four and six dry flies?
I mean, it was just insane. It was so phenomenal. I also got to try a little bit of still water fishing. You got a little taste of that this summer.
No contests, Yellowstone Park. It was the best.
Marvin:
[23:18] Yeah, it's a neat place. I usually go in the fall, usually about this time of year.
Sometime if you go back, my favorite river to fish in the entire park is the Firehole.
Oh. Yeah, and you can't fish it in the summer because it's too hot.
Exactly. But you know, when it cools off and it's snowing and the bison are coming together and you're sitting there fishing soft tackles for, waiting for the hatch.
And then the Miller Cat has come off and the Blue-winged Olives.
It's a pretty amazing place. And then you've got all the boiling water and the steam and the sulfur.
It's a super cool place to kind of watch everything kind of go to sleep for the winter.
Kisha:
[23:57] And I would love to go back in the fall. I'm sure we will.
Unfortunately, we can't this year, but we didn't get to fish the Madison or the FIHR or any of that because as you stated, it was just too hot.
The fish had already moved So, we spent a lot of our time in other sections of the park.
And so, I thought that in itself was so exciting thinking that even though we've been to Yellowstone, I mean, there's so much that we haven't even tapped yet.
After 17 days, I mean, we haven't even gotten to some of what you might consider the best.
So, we can't wait to go back. It is a magical place. It really is.
Marvin:
[24:35] Yeah, it's funny you say that I can't remember the first time driving into the park In gardener and you know, you drive a little bit in and you see that massive waterfall Um, and you just are like, you know, maybe every now and again we get something, right?
Kisha:
[24:52] Oh, man it It's hard to describe like I said, I I've heard people go on and on about the park and i'm like, okay, okay You know, there's a lot of beauty out there I get it, but it really you have to be there.
You kind of have to be there to understand it And that I know exactly what you're talking about that that waterfall coming in It's breathtaking.
It really is you got to stop and just take it in. I mean, I couldn't imagine A more a more special a more special place than that. It it makes us want to move closer to make more trips possible so It's awesome.
Marvin:
[25:24] Yeah, absolutely And you know, it's funny when you and I were talking kind of doing the kind of game plan for the interview We were talking that we're kind of similarly wired about trading luxuries for more days on the water.
And I know you have some secrets that you share with me and I was wondering if you'd share them with our listeners for the folks that are kind of like us, that'll do anything they can to kind of get more days out there.
Kisha:
[25:50] Yeah, you bet. Boy, we take it pretty seriously, don't we?
I would say the first thing that we do, and I know this isn't possible for everybody, but we travel at night.
I know folks say that we're crazy for doing that, but my kids sure do have it made.
Like say, for example, we wanna head to Colorado for the weekend and fish.
We will, and we do this oftentimes, my kids will get out of school on Friday and we'll leave, you know, we'll pack up the van and leave. And Chris and I will drive through the night, we'll trade off.
And my kids will literally wake up on the South Platte.
I mean, and so that driving through the night, it allows us then to be on the water, from sun up all day Saturday, all day Sunday, and then we'll drive home through the night Sunday night and pull in the town just in time to get my kids showered and changed into school by 8 a.m.
I mean, it's just, it's insane, but that it maximizes our time, and we just want as much time as we can get. I mean, definitely sleep is a luxury, but I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of it we travel.
[27:04] Another thing that we do, we are kind of crazy.
We bought a home freeze dryer, not like a dehydrator, but an actual freeze dryer.
And we prepare meals and freeze dry them so that we can camp remotely and not have to be limited by hungry kiddos or a grumbly tummy when you're you're on the water.
So we bring all of our food with us and they're yummy, they're delicious.
It's the meals that we make, but we invested in that home freeze dryer just to make more meals so that we can be on the water.
[27:45] I mean, imagine it's about dinner time, you pull off the water a little bit, you boil a little bit of water and you prepare your meal and you fill everybody up and 30 minutes later, you're right back to fishing.
You get those the last few hours of light that can sometimes be the best fishing.
And there's no limits.
So we love it. Breakfast, lunch, dinners, snacks, traveling snacks, and you name it, we bring it with us everywhere.
Camping by the Water and Prioritizing Fishing Time
[28:15] Another thing we do is we camp a lot. So we just want to be as close to the water as we can. of times in you know in the winter that might not always be an option but.
You know, based on the temperatures, you know, we've got really, really warm sleeping bags and you'll say, for example, we were at Clean the Dream this past August and, you know, we had several offers from friends to stay at their house, which is so generous and we're so grateful.
I mean, sometimes we do, we love our buddies and our friends, but when we consider the travel time to and from each other's house, I'm like, man, that's about three and a half hours of fishing that I could have if I just camp right here instead.
And so we oftentimes opt for that. And we did at Clean the Dream this year.
We thought, man, well, the trichos are coming off really early.
And if we camp here, we can hit the tricho hatch.
And so we did. So we're a little extreme, I guess. I know that sounds a little fanatical, but gosh, it's a happy trade-off. It's an easy trade-off for us.
Yes, let's fish some more. Yes, yes. just were insatiable, I think.
Marvin:
[29:22] Very, very neat. And do you have any kind of, you know, secrets or suggestions for how to introduce kids to fly fishing and keep them interested?
Kisha:
[29:30] Oh, man. My kids kind of came by it naturally, and I know that's not true for everybody, but one of the biggest things I would say, just make it easy and keep it fun.
When my kids were younger and we taught them how to bass fish, you know, they'd catch a fish or two, but then, you know, they're distracted.
Well, I hear this frog croaking. Where is this frog at? You know, they want to put the rogue down and go figure out where that frog is or or, you know, what, I saw a lizard run by, Let's throw some rocks now, you know, don't...
I know that's kind of a taboo thing when you're fishing. You don't want to throw rocks in the water. And I know a lot of other parents might say that's a bad thing, a taboo thing. But just if you can get them having fun, they're going to want to come back.
As opposed to sitting in a boat for eight hours just waiting for your bobber to go down in the sun.
They might not have such a positive experience doing that. So we just always made it adventure. That's what we call it. We didn't even call it fishing.
We said, do we want to go have an adventure.
And it was just kind of following their lead and letting them be kids and loving what they love. They loved bugs. So a lot of times something would whiz by and butterfly, we're chasing a butterfly now.
And it was fun. And that's what drew them to the outdoors and led them back to fishing. It just naturally.
Another thing, I've got a redhead. We definitely never, never, ever leave home without plenty of food.
[30:55] Otherwise, you have some hangry moments. So avoid those at all costs, you know, make sure there's plenty of food and just maybe taking that step for just managing comfort. Are they too hot? Are they too cold? You know, if Wes gets cold, heaven help us all.
So we always mitigate all of those little hurdles and just make it fun.
That's all that you can do. If it's fun, they're going to want to do it all the time. And it's just an easy transition when you say, let's go have fun.
Marvin:
[31:22] Yeah. Who doesn't want to have fun? Right.
Kisha:
[31:25] Right.
Fly Fishing's Impact on Family and Life in a Tech-centric World
Marvin:
[31:26] Yeah, and you know, we always talk about the benefits of being outdoors, and you know, you and I had a conversation, I think it was at Scott's District, after the Denver Fly Fishing Show one day, you know, can you kind of share with us kind of how fly fishing has impacted your family and, you know, the impact it's had on raising two young boys in such a tech-centric world?
Kisha:
[31:46] Oh, absolutely. Yeah. The outdoors and fly fishing, I mean, if you haven't figured that out yet, it is something so near and dear to my heart. And I do remember that conversation with you.
I've always had a love for the outdoors. And I worked for the Forest Service for a lot of years through college, but nothing really impacted my life as deeply and more more meaningful than fly fishing did.
And I think that it's because I discovered it as such a vulnerable time in my life. And we kind of touched on that. You know, we just lost our home.
You were squished in this RV.
You put that pandemic cherry on top and our life was kind of in shambles a little bit.
Things were pretty unrecognizable. And so we learned, you know, pretty quickly also that our small business was a very non-essential business for 2020 and 2021.
So, we had a lot of time on our hands, but it was a major cause for some anxiety, you know?
So, I guess you can say that the rivers of Colorado, I mean, this sounds so silly, but they healed me in a way.
They carried away a lot of that anxiety and they kind of put me back together, I guess you could say.
[33:01] It just reminded me that I I still had a pulse, you know, there was beauty out there and I could be moved and in awe of the world around me, you know, the stillness of nature, and just the flowing of the river, You know, it just left such an impression on me.
[33:19] It taught us how to live. It really did. It taught us what was important.
[33:25] My kids were in absolute heaven. I mean, they were living their best life. They still are.
Their bedroom was like camping full-time, and now they're just taking it into the woods with them. I mean, just life couldn't get any better for them.
But fly fishing steadied me, I think, during that hard time in my life.
I won't speak for Chris, but I think it was similar for him too.
And all of a sudden, the four of us had something in common.
And what more can you ask for as a family? You know, we were bonded by this shared love and passion.
You know, the feelings that we get as we hiked and fished and filled our boxes together. I mean, we camped under the stars, we talked about God, we cheered for each other with each catch. I mean, we just felt the joy of being alive and doing that together.
It's just it, it really is so special to me. Like I said, I know it sounds a little cliche and maybe a little bit cheesy, but it was our thing.
It was our outlet. And I just feel so fortunate that we were able to discover that together.
[34:25] So couple that with, I'd say the opposite of that, then you kind of enter in technology, the kind of oxymorons in that regard.
I mean, don't get me wrong, we're not an anti-technology family by any means.
I mean, we have devices, we have phones, we have social media accounts.
But I do believe in today's world, it's kind of easy, if I can say that, easy for parents to allow their devices to maybe raise them a little bit.
It's easy for them to kind of hand over an iPad or a device just to get some peace and quiet. And then before you know it, the day's gone.
So the tech obsession of today's youth, it's frightening to me.
[35:10] It very quietly takes over. And so the experiences that my boys have had in nature have been so rewarding that, you know, hours on YouTube or with a video game just really don't compare.
You know, they're not left wanting more when they compare the two.
It's like, I know, they know what they want. They know what they like.
You know, they dream about tarpon and red fish and brown trout.
You know, they don't dream about, you know, they're not jonesing for a fix on scrolling through Instagram, you know? And so I think as a parent, I just, I love that.
That aspect, you know, where nature has sort of replaced that.
You know, that strong need for connection, you know, found on social media.
It's a connection with something else. And so I love that, you know, we, like I said, don't don't don't misunderstand me.
We, you know, we jump on YouTube, we jump on social media, you know, we we just tend to focus and gravitate more towards, you know, maybe slide in his channel or Charlie Craven's channel, as opposed to your podcast, as opposed to, you know, maybe an influencer, you know, all these little other crazy accounts that are out there.
Marvin:
[36:15] So, yeah, well, but you know, it's funny, right? Because I always say, you know, it's kind of like a shovel. I can dig a hole or I can hit you in the head, right?
So, so, so, so, you know, like I love tech too, but, you know, I do think that, you know, using it as a tool kind of like you're describing to learn how to do things and to use it to like truly connect with people and to really kind of, you know, you find your people, but then you also get to spend time with them in person or if they're in another country.
And I think that's a very different, you know, interaction than just abdicating your agency and just kind of taking whatever pops up on the screen, right?
Kisha:
[36:54] Sure. And like I said, you know, more to both of our points, it's kind of a double-edged sword.
You know, because my kids don't spend all kinds of time on game systems and don't hang out, you know, on these social media accounts, you know, they, they're kind of outcasts, you know, at school.
Fly Fishing Community as a Support System for Kids
[37:13] And so they, they don't, they don't have any friends.
Um, they've been bullied to the point where we've had to involve the police on certain occasions, but then insert fly fishing again.
And all of a sudden you've got these, these people that they've made friends with that, you know, hear about stuff like that and they just embrace them and they reach out to them, you know, I.
Uncle Feather Merchants, you know, the gang over there sent a little care package to my kids, and it just happened to be at a really pivotal point.
And I think my kids smiled for weeks, you know.
It's like they may be isolated at school, but they know where they belong.
They have this community of friends and people, and they're not all their same age, but that doesn't matter.
It's irrelevant at that point. So you get random boxes in the mail, Hey, I thought of the kids, here's some time materials or, you know, I really wanted to reach out and help the kids and here's this or here's that.
[38:09] And I know that that can sound like, oh man, geez, Keisha, I wish, golly, I wish I had friends like that. But that's not it at all.
It's teaching my boys, I want to be a friend like that.
It's teaching them so many powerful lessons that you just, you can't get any other way.
I'm so proud of them for sticking up for what they believe in and who they are, because it, it's teaching them balance, you know, tech is great.
You can learn a lot. But like you just said, you can also dig yourself a pretty deep pit to live in.
And you can choose how to act and how to respond.
And they've got these great mentors in their life that are that are paving that way for them. And I'm just I'm so beyond grateful and blessed for the, for the experiences that we've had just from fishing. I know it's more than that. It's more than fishing.
It's just been a wonderful journey so far.
Marvin:
[39:05] Yeah, I mean, there's just so much there, right? I mean, there's living, you know, deliberately, you know, there's the power of authenticity and vulnerability and the power of trust, right? Oh, yes.
And those are all those things that I think are harder and harder to come by today.
I mean, it's kind of interesting, right? I just think about growing up in the 70s and there was a lot more of that, right?
Yeah. And, you know, also in the sense of it's kind of this irony where, you know, we're more connected through technology than we've ever been, but so many people are so incredibly lonely because they haven't found their people.
Kisha:
[39:41] Yes. Oh, I 100% agree with that. And it's so sad.
It breaks my heart. And, and, you know, that's what, you know, life can give you those tools and experience, give you those tools to try to, you know, get you to your people, drive you to your passion.
I, I, everybody needs a passion. Everybody needs their people.
Everybody needs a village.
Everybody does. And they deserve that. Yeah.
Marvin:
[40:05] Yeah. And, you know, and it builds resiliency, which is a great thing for kids, right? You know, when they have that courage and that resiliency, right? And then they can just kind of, you know, point themselves in the right direction.
And, you know, they learn, right. To find their people and they have the courage to kind of grit it out. And those are super powerful life lessons, right? Yeah.
Kisha:
[40:23] That you don't learn from a video game, unless I'm mistaken.
I mean, I haven't found a video game that's taught me that lesson, but I've seen, I've seen firsthand, you know, comparing the two and, and absolutely.
Those lessons, they're hard-learned, but they mean so much. They're invaluable.
And learning the tools to navigate your way through those lonely moments, it's everything. That's life.
That's life. And turning to the river and turning to fly fishing, I mean, I think that's just such a healthy outlet for them.
For all of us.
Marvin:
[40:57] Yeah, it's funny you say that because I always kind of, you know, so my boys are, uh, gosh, my oldest just turned 21 this week and then my youngest is 15.
But, you know, you kind of talk about it in that whole process of you're trying to raise an adult, right?
And, uh, yeah, well, it's those, but those, that's all the stuff that goes into that, right?
You know, it's not, you know, it's not just grades or whatever.
It's like, you know, it's like there's this whole package of life skills, right?
That you're trying to, you know, all this life wisdom you're trying to give your children, right? Absolutely. Yeah, it's an amazing thing and you know we touched on it earlier. I wanted to kind of get back to the fly tying because I do want to drill into this because I know you've got a lot of good secrets for people.
So your boys got a got a vice from Santa Claus and then how long did it take you to kind of get the bug?
Kisha:
[41:45] Oh boy, it didn't take long. They got their vice for Christmas in December and I had my own.
Chris and I both got our own, but I got mine for my birthday in April of that following Christmas.
So, it was crazy how fast everything happened. Sometimes I forget that it's only been a couple of years because I can't really remember life before I typed flies.
But I just think the artistic appeal was so inviting for me.
I love to draw, I love to paint, you know, I love, I love all those things.
So, extending my creativity to a new realm was just so, it was too easy.
I mean, I know I, I felt hard.
Madly in love with tying flies. I think I, I think I frightened Chris, you know, at some points, I mean, he, I just the rabbit hole, he was like, surely she's got to come up for air somewhere.
[42:43] But I started tying flies, like I had to make up for the previous 40 years that I had never done it. I mean, I was just so into it and it was just...
I mean, it was just so much fun. I really, and I still, I tie every single day.
I rarely, is there a day that I don't tie a fly or a dozen flies?
I try to tie a good dozen or so every day.
But it's just, I love it. It connects me to the water. I dream about what's going to eat it and where I'm going to be as I'm pying it. I mean, it's so cheesy, but gosh darn, I love it so much. So yeah, that transition did not take long.
I definitely have my kids to thank for that. that they, they, they're pretty cool kids. Gosh, I'm, I'm a lucky mom. So they, they, they spearheaded that, that whole time gig and yeah, it was fun.
Marvin:
[43:32] So what do you tie on?
Kisha:
[43:35] My first vice was a regal. I bought a regal. Um, and, and I love it.
Um, I still use it. I eventually, um, wanted to try, you know, a full rotary vice and I went to a Renzini and I, I, I love that vise.
I absolutely love it. So I tie on the Renzetti most of the time, but I still use the Regal a lot for, if I'm gonna do some deer hair work, tie a bass bug popper, you know, something where I'm really tugging and pulling hard on that, you know, on the thread and on the hook, you know, hold bigger hook better.
You know, sometimes I'm using, you know, one knot, two knot hooks.
It's just, you know, there's a right tool for the job, you know, no matter what you're doing. And so sometimes the Renzetti's perfect and sometimes the Regal's perfect. So I keep them both within arm's reach at all times.
Marvin:
[44:19] Got it. And which Renzetti do you have?
Kisha:
[44:22] I have the master. I just went, I mean, I I'm all in Marvin.
We are all in or all out kind of people. So, yeah, we are, I got the master.
Um, and, um, yeah, we, we, we all have Renzetti's and we all have Regals.
It's kind of a crazy thing, but, um, yeah, Chris, Chris got a master as well.
Um, a good friend of ours, a dear friend. I didn't, I didn't know at the time, but he, you know, he, he kind of heard, I saw my kids tying and, um, reached out and just said, you know, I've been given a lot of really cool things in my life and I would love to, I'd love to help your kids out.
You know, can I send them some vices? And I just about fell out of my chair, just the nicest man, one of our dear, dear friends to this day.
So my kids have friends that he's as well, that they were gifted by someone pretty near and dear.
So we're kind of a runs Eddie family.
Marvin:
[45:13] Yeah. And yeah. And so I want to talk to you, too, about Tyres that you kind of follow on social media or who have influenced you.
And I mean, we already know you've got Rat Stink and Skeeter on the list, but who are some of the folks that you kind of watch, Ty, and that you kind of follow and that have towards you on your journey.
Kisha:
[45:32] Um, you know without sounding redundant, I mean charlie craven hands down.
I mean he He has a gift for teaching. I I don't even know how many times i've gone through and watched his videos.
They're just I always pick up something different He like I said, he has a way of teaching and and the thing that I love and appreciate so much about charlie Is that he's not afraid to tell me when something needs some work You know, we learn a lot from success, but gosh, not in anything in comparison to when we maybe make mistakes or have a little bit of a failure.
And that could happen on the vice, you know, it's like, you know, he's just not afraid to say, you know, you need to work on your proportions or that tail's too long, or don't let your resin come up on the bead like that, or, you know, and it just, I always tell him like, I'm not looking for praise, I just want to know how to get better.
And he's so good at that. He can do it in such a good and classy way that really helps me.
And he pushes me, he really does push me to try new things and to be better.
You know, I just, I am so grateful for that guy.
[46:38] He's just awesome. So Charlie, hands down. Kelly Gallop, of course.
I mean, how can you not talk about Kelly? You know, I went through a streamer phase, still, well, I go through a streamer phase several times a year.
I just, you know, I have kind of like fly time ADD.
But I really appreciate Kelly when he says, you know, if it isn't right, if it doesn't look right, then back it off and start again.
You know, take it off and do it again. You know, don't move forward until you get things how you want it.
And that always resonated with me from the first time I heard him say it.
And that echoes in my mind a lot as I'm tying, you know, do it right.
Does it look right? Stop and look, you know, flip your vice around, look at it. You'll get it right. You know, then you learn those proportions from the get-go. Bye-bye.
[47:21] I just there's so many great tires out there. Um, it all just depends on what what you're looking for Um, chris johnson at living waters is such an awesome tire and he's taught me so much They do a tying class a beginner and an intermediate class every wednesday night at the fly shop And I have learned so much from him and from the group down there um, I always always look forward to uncle feather merchants, um, they're Their tying seasons, you know, they oftentimes pull pull their signature tires together and do a live stream session during tying season and they're always relevant flies always new patterns and that I learn a lot from that.
I we center whatever evening they end up doing those broadcasts.
I mean it's on our calendar. The kids know it's like don't interrupt.
We're we're we gotta make sure we have dinner done early. We're we're watching and we're learning.
I mean shorts outfitters. I mean they they've got such a great program up there too for a lot of their best stuff. You know then you've got you throw Russ Madden in there.
[48:17] Eli Gonzalez on Instagram. It's easy, easy fly Gonzalez or don't quote me on that, but it's easy Gonzalez.
He, she's such a clean and talented tire.
I mean, Blaine Blaine is, I mean, we do so much bass fishing down here.
His, he's impacted the fly industry with his designs. Absolutely.
So I'm so inspired by him.
Phil Roley, I'm starting, I'm really starting to dive into still water patterns, he's been such a huge help. I've learned so much from him.
I don't know, there's just so many people. It just kind of depends on where you're at in your journey, what you're wanting to learn and what catches your eye.
Eli, like I mentioned, he could tie some of the most realistic and incredible bugs that look just like the real thing. So if that's your gig, he's your guy. And there's times where I want to learn that.
Russ Madden, he's like, this is your weapon.
We've got to make these things lethal and he does. So that really inspires me.
[49:15] Andreas Anderson makes deer hair work look like a walk in the park.
I still scratch my head. I try to figure out how he does what he does with deer hair.
But I love watching his videos. I've even taken some of his classes.
I love learning from people who are willing to teach and that's all that it is. I just glean as much as I can and pull information and tips and hacks anywhere, anywhere they're available.
So I'll take, I'll take all the help I can get from anyone who's willing to give it, but there's so many good tires out there. There really are.
We are blessed to have all this information just right, right here at our fingertips.
So, but definitely, I'm sure there's a million other people and I'm forgetting, but those I'd say are.
The biggest one so far, I think, on my journey.
Marvin:
[50:02] Yeah. And it's funny too, because we were talking again in our kind of our game plan call, and I was like, you know, you're like, well, I got accomplished at tying because I tie a lot.
And I think you're kind of being a little too modest, right?
Because I know a lot of people that tie a lot that aren't very accomplished.
And so, it's just like people that tell you how much they fish and they're not that much better than they were five or ten years ago and I'm not by that I'm not saying I'm special on the vise or at the water it's just kind of one of those things and so I kind of wanted to push you a little bit on that about you know because what we're really talking about and it reminded me of interviewing Cat Toy because Cat made a super rapid you know fishing and tying skill progression and I just wanted to see if you could tell us a little bit more about how you improved your skills and what's basically been what two and a half years? Yeah.
Kisha:
[50:57] Yeah. Two and a half years. I was invited to tie the Denver fly fishing show after having just two years of experience.
The Importance of Asking Questions and Seeking Information
[51:05] I don't know enough to say that's pretty unprecedented, but I was blown away that they said yes.
So yeah, I've only been tying a short time, but I can't really give all the credit to myself.
I definitely put in the time and the vice, But there's so much information out there that's available to anybody. You know, you hear people say, Oh, I really wish I could learn how to tie. Well, well, you can. You absolutely can.
But I would say, you know, someone who wants to up their game a little bit, you know, just ask a lot of questions.
You know, how does this work? Does that look right? What material does does does this do? What is this for?
I kind of mentioned I wanted to learn still waterflies. And so I reach out, you know, to Phil Rowley and Brian Chen and they take the time to explain it to me.
But then, you know, then it's on me to take what they've explained and it go to the vice and to put in the time and practice it and just be driven to get it right.
You know, you kind of have to have that passion at the heart of it that says, you know, I want to nail this.
You know, I want to learn how to tie the no hackle. I mean that I've made progress on it, but I'm not there, you know, but I'm I'm so committed to learning it.
And so that that commitment, you know, is available if you just put in the time. Um, I.
[52:28] I, I always have my nose in a book. I mean, I really do. I, I have read so many fly tying books.
I have listened to so many podcasts.
I mean, anytime you were woodworkers. So anytime I'm running a sander, I've got, I've got some expert on on some technique you know talking in my ears you know that I'm visualizing as I'm standing I mean I was obsessed with wet flies not too long ago, you know, the Guadalupe River.
[52:55] Kind of what you were describing on the Yellowstone. You're waiting for those bugs to come off and you swing those wet threads through the guad and you're getting a bite.
So I was like, oh my gosh, I got to learn more about wet flies.
So I'm waiting at a tire discount and I've got my nose in Dave Hughes' wet fly books.
And then I'm over in the pickup line for the kids at school and I've got 15 minutes, so I'm going to pull that Dave Hughes book back out and I'm going to pick up where I left off.
I mean, I just love to learn and there's There's so much out there to learn from you know, you've got April Vokey's podcast and and like we mentioned Pat Dorsey's books.
I mean, there's so much to learn that if you're willing to fully immerse yourself and try to be a sponge and learn from everybody in a humble way, you're going to get better.
I mean, if you put the time in, you're going to get better, but you have to be willing to make changes where they're needed.
You have to accept the teaching and accept the help and the tips and the corrections humbly with an open mind and make those changes. If you make the changes, you're going to see results.
And that's, like I said, I don't think that's anything special that I'm doing.
I just think I love it so darn much that I just, I can't stay away from it. I just, I love it.
Marvin:
[54:12] Yeah. I would say, you know, being receptive to constructive criticism is actually, in my experience, pretty rare, right?
Kisha:
[54:21] I can see how that's true, yes.
Marvin:
[54:23] Yeah, I mean, I would say 8 out of 10 times if someone asks me what I think, they don't want me to really tell them. They want me to tell them that they're awesome.
Kisha:
[54:31] Right. Well, I guess I don't know.
I I'm not that way because I I'm pretty hard to offend. I'm I I know that you know, there are some people out there that might consider that a challenge, but uh II love to learn and and I know I mean, I because...
I guess that's the only way it can come. I mean, you have to be willing to admit that you're wrong sometimes. You have to be willing to admit that maybe that can be better. I remember one time Charlie Craven told me, he says, I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed.
Learning from Mistakes and Trying Something New
[55:03] I told him that this fly, it was just a little too small. And so I made an adjustment to substitute here. And that was his reply. And I laughed. I thought, you know what? He's right.
Gosh darn it. He's so right. And by golly that next night I I made the change and I was like charlie here it is.
I I did it and he's like now i'm really proud of you, you know, like you have to be willing To be wrong and you have to be willing to make mistakes You just have to it's gonna happen.
You're you're you're gonna be like dang it Start over, you know, let's let's let's cut this off, you know, kelly gallop in his time classes he goes around with a razor blade.
I learned that from him this summer. We met him and he says in his time classes, he walks around with a razor blade and he'll look at somebody and go, is it on there right? Does it look right? No. Okay. And he cuts it off.
You have to be willing to start over. I bet a lot of people would probably not love that very much, but it's how you learn.
That's how we all learn. We learn from making mistakes.
So I've obviously made a lot of them, you know, and I'm going to make more.
And I tell it to my kids, you got to be willing to just make a mistake and go, okay, what next? What am I going to do differently?
Marvin:
[56:12] Yeah, learn to fail quickly, as they like to say.
Kisha:
[56:16] Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Marvin:
[56:18] Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, so I still want to get you a couple of tying tips that you can share with mere mortals to help us up our tying game. A couple of things.
Kisha:
[56:29] Okay, I would say...
Um, don't, you know, we've already talked about don't being afraid to make mistakes.
We're not going to beat that horse anymore, but, um, don't be afraid to be new, to try something new.
I think that, you know, nobody wants to, to admit they don't know what they're doing, or I've never tried this before, or, you know, you get to the deer hair part of that sex dungeon fly, and you're like sweating bullets because you think you suck at deer hair, you know, and it's hard.
Hard. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to try something that's hard and to keep at it.
One thing that really helps me and I think I kind of touched on this earlier is you can't just tie one or two of a fly.
You don't learn enough. And that's my opinion.
This is fly tying according to Keisha Atkin with only less than three years of experience. So take it for what it's worth.
But you can't just tie a couple. You have to tie a dozen.
Sit down and tie them from start to finish. Give yourself the time to learn and to, you know, because by the time you get through number six or seven or eight, you're like, I've got this and your last four will probably be the best ones that you tie.
So tie a lot of them, you know, learn a, you know, learn a nymph and tie a dozen.
[57:46] So if you really want to up your game, grab a tying book, sit down with a YouTube video, along, you know, word for word, and tie it. Use the materials that they use, follow the steps that they do.
I like to tell my kids you have to learn the rules to be able to break the rules.
[58:06] You know, I'd like to, there's a reason why that fly designer put that material on that hook. There's a reason why he picked that. There's a reason why he picked that over other things.
So, try it his way first. Do it how he does it.
Learn it. Get good at it. And then before you know it, like we talked about before, you've got these techniques kind of in your toolbox, and you've got these processes down, and this understanding of materials down, and why they're on a hook, you know, they all serve a purpose.
And then you can kind of start start getting creative with things and going, you know, I know he did it like this or she did it like this, but I wonder what would I know that that this might work instead and that might help me in this particular situation on this particular river do this and and your creativity can kind of take over and then you can start breaking the rules.
Then you can start being creative, but you're creative with a purpose and and that's that's probably the best advice is just follow Follow the rules in the beginning, do it and do them a dozen at a time.
And then as your tools start building and your knowledge starts building, start being creative with it. Start having fun with it.
Your understanding is only going to increase, but you have to be teachable, like we talked about. You have to be a sponge and you have to be humble, but learn the rules and then you'll soon be able to break them.
Marvin:
[59:25] Yeah, it's funny you say that because I'm a big believer in that tie a dozen rule.
And I'm a big believer that you start with a larger version of the pattern and then you start tying multiple dozens smaller and smaller.
Sure. And yeah, it's interesting you say that, and I always love to ask people that tie a lot, you know, I bet you've got some crazy wonky tool on your bench that you can't live without that that you should tell people about?
Kisha:
[59:49] I don't know if it's crazy wonky, um, I wouldn't say I'm a tool freak, because I definitely have my tools that I love and I really stick with those. But I use one of those Petty Gene magic tools.
I really love putting feathers and things and dubbing loops.
And gosh, I love that thing. I reach for that thing and that clip all the time.
And I don't know that too many people have it. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about.
Marvin:
[1:00:19] Yeah, it's clear. It looks like an alligator clip, right?
Kisha:
[1:00:21] Yeah. you can stick the feather with the stem through the little slat and it will splay upwards the feather fibers on the sides.
So then you can pinch them with your clip and cut them off and leave the stem, you know, remaining in that little seated in that little center portion of the clip. And I, in the little bench tool. And I love that thing.
I use that thing all the time. I love it.
Marvin:
[1:00:48] Very neat. And do you have a favorite material you like to tie with?
Favorite Tools and Materials in Fly Tying
Kisha:
[1:00:55] I'm kind of a fan of chickaboo. I love it.
It's just kind of like a smaller version of marabou. I love the undulation and the motion you get from those feathers. So a lot of my flies I try to plug that in where I can because I feel like it's such a trigger.
I really, love natural materials in general. So, CDC, that's probably another favorite. I really love CDC.
So, that's a tough question. So, I'm proud of myself for narrowing it down all the two.
Marvin:
[1:01:30] I'm gonna hit you with another broad question and ask you if you have a kind of a favorite pattern or a favorite style of fly that you like to tie.
Kisha:
[1:01:39] Oh, I really don't. And the reason because I think fly tying is is kind of a backdoor to becoming a better angler.
I know that some people might disagree with that and that's totally okay.
But I believe that understanding what a fly was designed to do allows you to understand better how to fish it, when to fish it, why to fish it.
And so for that reason, I've never wanted to pigeonhole myself into, you know...
It's not that you can't have a favorite, but they're all my favorite because they all catch fish in different scenarios for different reasons at different times.
So I love to tie everything, I really do, because it helps me catch more fish.
I want to be able to show up to a piece of water anywhere, and though it might take some time, I'm going to figure it out.
I know I'm going to have what's in my box that can work, and I'm going to figure it out no matter what.
So I mean, give me carp flies, bass flies, saltwater flies, nymphs, dry streamers, any of it. I love them all. I really do. They all serve a purpose just at a different time.
So I'd probably say I tie nymphs and emergers the most if that helps.
So I'm not being a total stinker and not answering your question.
Just because I fish them the most, you know, it's such a huge food source, but I'm one of those ridiculous people that takes way too many flies to the river, way too many flies.
I just, I have them with me. I love them. They all, they all will have a purpose at some point. So.
Marvin:
[1:03:09] Yeah, it's funny you say that. I think in my, my tub, I have seven guide boxes, those big, like, flat boxes that are the size of a big book.
And that doesn't even include the probably 15 boxes I have.
So I totally get it. And then I would also say too something you said really resonated because Blaine and I talk about this all the time about you can't be a fly designer if you don't really fish because you don't understand the fishing problems that you're trying to solve.
Kisha:
[1:03:44] Right. Thank you. I love that. That's awesome. It's just true.
You can try to argue it, but it's just true. And likewise, I hate to say it, but a lot of people who fish who don't tie flies, I've seen that so often on the river.
[1:03:59] We've been given so much, so much help, so much knowledge. You see someone struggling on the river, you want to go up and help them. If they're open to that, obviously.
Like we talked about, some people really don't want help or need help, and that's okay.
The Limitations of Not Tying Flies
[1:04:12] But if they seem like maybe they'd be open to some help, I love to go up and offer that.
And so they'll say, what are you fishing or what's working or I saw you using this or I saw you catching this, what was that that you were using?
And so I'll pull out my box and of course I'll give them a few, but I'm like, do you tie flies?
And they're like, no, I don't.
And it's like, okay, well, you're not going to be able to find this in a fly shop, but here's the next closest thing.
But I just feel like you're limiting yourself. You know, you kind of limit yourself in understanding why, why am I fishing this fly?
You know, he pulls, you know, this individual might pull up in his box and say, well, I've got some of these.
And it's like, you know, I'm sorry, but none of those quite do what this does.
So you could try them, but this is going to be your best bet here.
I'm gonna give you a few more. I mean, you just you kind of limit yourself, you got to be able to, you know, have a failure on the water and go home and sit down at the vice and go, What do I need that's going to do the job for me so I can take it back next week or tomorrow or the next month and catch those fish that I couldn't catch today because I didn't have what I'm going to make right now.
Marvin:
[1:05:16] Yeah, at some point, right, if you fish long enough, you're going to find some really snotty fish, right?
Kisha:
[1:05:22] You're right. They're out there.
Marvin:
[1:05:24] Oh, boy. They're out there. And they live in lots of different places.
And so I have to believe that we're going to be able to find the Atkin family on the 2024 show circuit or if you guys got plans to hit the Foremski shows or any other shows this season?
Kisha:
[1:05:40] Oh yeah, absolutely. Yep, we'll be in Denver, for sure, we'll be, We'll be we'll be tying at the Denver show. We'll be tying at the cell bug roundup.
We'll probably be at the wasatch intermountain expo again Um, we're going to go to bob in the hood We're not as demonstration tires, but just to learn and to take it all in Um, we usually go to the streamer love fest.
I mean, we're we're all over the map and i'll be sure to post about it online, so um, you know anybody crazy enough or bored enough that wants to know what we're up to can find us we We sure get out there and we have some fun and we learn a lot. So we'll be out there. Absolutely.
Marvin:
[1:06:19] Yeah, it's funny you say that. I'm actually going to not go to the Atlanta Fly Fishing Show even though it's in my backyard and I'll be at Bobbin in the Hood as well.
Kisha:
[1:06:26] Oh, awesome. I'm so excited. I remember last year, you know, seeing, you know, the advertisements for it and listen to Schultzie talk about it and all the preparations for it and man, I just had too much FOMO.
I was like, I'm not missing it next year.
Marvin:
[1:06:41] We're going.
Kisha:
[1:06:42] Are like, yes, you know, so we made sure to happen, make it happen this year.
Well, our poor trusty old van will get some more, some more tires and some more mileage this coming year, but we'll be there. Absolutely.
Marvin:
[1:06:55] Yeah, that's awesome. And before I let you go tonight, Keisha, is there anything else you want to share with our listeners?
The Outdoors: Changing Lives and Creating Memories
Kisha:
[1:07:02] I don't think so. I think we've kind of talked about a lot. We're on Instagram.
I'm Mama Angler. M-O-M-M-A-A-N-G-L-E-R. Mama Angler, two M's and two A's.
My kids have accounts, but they've never run social media to post about it.
So we kind of turned that one into a family account.
But just get out there and have fun. The outdoors can change your life.
It really has changed mine.
And I wouldn't regret any one minute I've spent outdoors with my family.
No matter what you're doing, if you can get outside, you know, those memories last a lifetime and they really do change lives and have an impact.
So, I'm a big advocate for family time and time together. I'm a big advocate for finding your own quiet time as well. So, take time for yourself, but do things as a family. It will change you. It will change your kids.
That's kind of my shameless plug.
Marvin:
[1:07:58] Yeah, there you go. And I will drop your your Instagram handle in the show notes so people can find you and follow you. And Keisha, I really appreciate you taking some time out of your evening to chat with me.
Kisha:
[1:08:11] Oh, it was a blast. I had a good time. I love talking about fishing anytime.
Thanks for having me, Martin.
Marvin:
[1:08:16] You bet. Take care and have a good evening. You too.
Kisha:
[1:08:19] Good night.
Intro:
[1:08:21] Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.
Again, if you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating and reviewing the podcast of your choice. Tight lines, everybody.