Transcript: On the Road with the Three Amigos
S5, Ep 123: On the Road with the Three Amigos
2023, Marvin S. Cash
The Articulate Fly
http://www.thearticulatefly.com
Transcript
Intro:
[0:04] Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly.
On my fly fishing journey, I've been fortunate to meet and become friends with some really great folks.
I've known Mack Brown almost as long as I've been fly fishing, and Jason Randall was one of the first guests and early supporters of the Articulate Fly, and I met Ed Engel through Jason and Landon.
This motley crew recently completed a week of chasing trout in the driftless in Chinook in Michigan and wanted to check in with the articulate fly.
I caught up with them pre-meal as they were preparing to return home.
Hopefully you find some of their tips helpful for your fall fishing.
Now, on to the three amigos.
Marvin:
[0:42] How are you, Jason, Ed, and Mack?
Ed:
[0:44] Great.
Jason:
[0:45] Hey, I'm good. We've been hanging out here for the past week fishing for big salmon in Michigan. We've had a blast.
Marvin:
[0:53] Yeah, so you've been up in the UP, right?
Jason:
[0:57] Yeah, we've been kind of bouncing around a little bit, but primarily focused on salmon.
Marvin:
[1:04] That's great. But you also did some fishing in the Driftless too before you headed up to UP, right?
Jason:
[1:09] We did. We did. We fished three days there in the heart of the Driftless streams, and we got into some pretty good brook trout.
We fished and got into some good brown trout, good colors. I mean, all these fish are in their pre-spawning colors, and it's just so much fun.
Marvin:
[1:26] Yeah, that's awesome. And I heard that the the food, the fishing and the company was a little lousy, right?
Jason:
[1:32] Well, I'll let those other guys address that.
Ed:
[1:36] Well, the food was great.
The company was a little a little dodgy.
Marvin:
[1:47] And so, uh, so guys, I, you know, I know you were catching massive, uh, Chinook that were running up out of Lake Michigan to spawn and that kind of kind of creates some challenges right Ed?
So I mean what are the secrets particularly when you're not fishing from a boat and you can't chase these guys to keep them on the hook and get them in the net.
Ed:
[2:07] Well, what you've got to do is, you've sort of got to follow the fish.
If you can keep the fish across or upstream from you, you've got a really good chance.
But if you have to follow the fish downstream, which we were doing, there was some real heavy water below us, and you'd have to run and chase that fish and get him to where he was in a resting spot or something and hope that you could bring this fish in.
Another thing to do is set your drag before it all starts. If you're fooling around with your drag when this fish takes off, it's just one more problem that you're going to have.
But the main thing that worked for a lot of the guys was if they could keep the fish up above that real heavy water.
And these other guys may have some ideas on that, too. What do you guys think?
Marvin:
[3:03] Yeah, Jason, I would imagine too, right? Let's talk a little bit about rod position.
I know you're a big fan of side pressure, right?
Jason:
[3:10] I am, and I just want to emphasize what Ed pointed out about just making sure your drag is right.
And know that most guys will just pull that drag right at the reel, and they kind of set it the way they want, but you also have to realize that the drag, if you've got that rod and bent up, and the drag that's coming out of the tip of the rod might be a little bit different.
So when that fish is running, I'll usually lower that rod just a little bit.
I don't go straight, but I'll lower it to maybe a 30 or 45-degree angle so that drag will come off a little bit smoother, and I think it helps with your breakoffs as well.
So when that fish starts running, don't just crank back and put the boots to them and put a huge bend in that rod because I think then your drag is going to be a little bit different.
But I agree too, is try to keep those fish even or with you or above you and side pressure.
When you're holding the rod straight up and down, that's like neutral.
You're not telling that fish where you want them to go.
And I think we need to establish control of the fight and side pressure I think can help really guide the fish into the part of the river where it's easier to land and maybe the current is not as strong and we get a better chance, I think, of landing that fish if we control the fight.
Marvin:
[4:33] Yeah, and this is one of those instances where the drag on your reel actually makes a difference, pray.
Jason:
[4:40] It does.
Marvin:
[4:42] Yeah, so this isn't the old trout adage. I mean, this is probably, you know, for fish like that, you really want almost a saltwater quality drag that's really smooth and gives you a lot of control, right?
Jason:
[4:53] You do, you do. And I'm going to let Mack address that a little bit.
Mack, do you want to chime in on that one?
Mac:
[5:01] Yeah, just the big part is pulling on it to where it's set.
I think my drag was probably around eight pounds, and I think you kind of test it down at the reel.
I mean, it's hard to test it at the other, so I think that a lot of that is when it's really going is we lower the angle and point it more.
I mean, not directly, but it's like if we do that, it's reducing all that friction at at the tip top, but yeah, they're hot.
I mean, you'd catch some of those that are like up in the upper 20s.
I think upper 20s, low 30 pound range and they can definitely take off.
And I think that drag part is like really good, you know, what Ed brought up.
Because a lot of times I think people are messing with their drag when they see it going and they should have, you know, had that all set up to start.
Ed:
[5:54] That's the kiss of death. messing with your drag when the fish takes, it's like, yeah.
Marvin:
[6:04] And I guess the kiss of death before that is if you break your ride, casting your rigs, a Mac, you want to kind of talk about, you know, I know you guys were probably fishing probably a pretty typical steelhead rig, uh, when you were up chasing the Chinook, you want to talk to folks about kind of how to cast that effectively and, uh, not endanger yourself, the people around your ride.
Mac:
[6:23] Yeah, I mean a lot of the line control to hook up into these salmon is we'll try to go and maximize just like with trout, to throw it up and above and let it go down as far as we can below, so we kind of try to get a pretty long float with it.
So when it's time to cast, regardless of which cast I decide to use, first thing I'll vector it so I've got you know 12 and a half 13 feet less line and then at either a constant tension cast swinging around to the side then coming back over the top that's what I use the most and a lot of times I'd shorten it up enough to where the weights already back up and out of the water so then it's just kind of like you know flipping forward because that works real well then you're releasing all the line in your line hand and you can go back out you know 15 30 35 whatever the distance and where you're gridding off.
And that's the other thing I liked about where we were, You still do all the same concepts of.
Gridding off these different sections and trying to cover it, you know, methodically.
Marvin:
[7:28] Yeah, and Mack, too, just for folks that don't know, I know when you talk about the vector pull, I know what you mean, but for folks that aren't familiar with that, you want to let folks know what that little tip is, because it's a really great way to recover a lot of line really quickly.
Mac:
[7:41] You're just having the line trapped under your middle finger of your rod hand, and then I grab the line above the rod hand, and when you do an archer stance, you know how you pull a bow back back in the archery, and so my line hand would go opposite, and I'd extend the rod hand forward.
Then you've got about 13 feet of line in that one retrieve. It's just an efficiency thing.
That's just the way I like to do it. I mean, you could do it other ways, but it's hard to do if you're sitting there pulling below the rod hand.
You'd take four to five strips to equal what I just did in one, so it's just a conservation of wasted motion, you know?
That's why I like doing it like that. The pendulum casts work great too with these rigs, just flip and underhand.
A lot of times we're going closer. You know what I mean?
Like an underhand, well, we use a, uh, for those familiar with crappie fish and that's how, that's how you throw bait, you know, underhand flips, that's, that works well too, but the main thing is just not to hit the rod, that's why we like using that constant edge, using a form of an elliptical, you know, and all the elliptical cast are constant tension. So the big thing is these weights are big.
You don't want to have it coming forward and hitting the rod in the back of the head. So elliptical casts keep that well away from you.
Marvin:
[8:55] Yeah, absolutely. And before I ask you guys where you're going to be on the road in 2024, Ed, I know I was watching you guys on social media over the last week or so, and it looks like you guys had some pretty technical presentations.
I saw a lot of feeding the fish. You want to talk a little bit more about the driftless presentation game? Because it looked pretty technical.
I'm just kidding. I'm not.
Ed:
[9:16] I'm not.
Oh, we had some real classic fishing there. Terms of dry flies, for me, it was basically just trying to get drag-free drifts.
And for that, it'd be maybe a parachute cast.
We'd fool around with the leaders a little bit, maybe add a little more 6X at the end of the leader so it would collapse on the water. You get a nice drag-free drift.
And that was for dry flies. For nymphs, it was pretty much standard uronymphing, but I'm a dry fly guy, so I really enjoyed the dry flies, and that's basically what I did.
I mean, it's all about the drift.
Jason:
[10:00] We tried to suck him over to the dark side, though. We tried to pull him into the dark side of uronymphing.
Marvin:
[10:09] So, Ed, you're gonna be the Denver Fly fishing show, uh, tying the dry fly Frenchie.
Is that what we're talking? That's what they're telling me.
Ed:
[10:15] Yeah, that's about right. Yeah. Yeah. And you gotta hackle it pretty heavy to keep that bead floating. Yeah.
Marvin:
[10:22] Yeah, absolutely. Maybe a little foam too. It makes it a little tough to cast, but, uh, but talking about the hatches, Ed. So I would imagine, right this time of year, you were probably maybe October caddis, right? Maybe some isos. What were you seeing on the water?
Ed:
[10:36] You know, we didn't, we didn't see that many actual hatches.
And what we were doing was we were fishing dry flies. We were fishing like size, I was fishing size 20s, 22s, and just fishing water.
And the trout would come up and take it. And if that didn't work, we would just do like a hopper dropper or a larger dry fly dropper.
And you'd catch fish typically on either one, Elk or Caddis dropper.
And the droppers were just.
Basically a tractor nymph patterns but uh I ended up just basically fishing these small 20s to 22s dry flies and did okay.
Marvin:
[11:17] Yeah I can tell you uh I couldn't see him I assume you're lifting on anything fishy that you think is close to your fly.
Ed:
[11:26] Oh you can see him it's really important to be able to see the fly you get close enough to be be able to, to, to see it.
I mean, get a casting position where you can see that fly on the water and you're going to have more positive hookups.
I make an effort to try to be able to see the fly and I, I'll put, uh, floating on it and then I'll, I'll, uh, uh, put desiccant powder on it.
It's not too hard to see. And, you know, I'm an old guy. I can't see that good anyhow, but I can see this. Yeah.
Marvin:
[11:56] I'm super nearsighted. I'll have to try some of those tips and see if it helps me out a little bit.
It sounds like you guys had a great time and I know you guys are going to all be on the road hitting the show circuit. I'm going to kind of go around and let folks know because this will probably be the last time – well, certainly the last time all of us will be talking together at the same time, probably see each other before January.
Jason, where can folks find you in 2024 on the road?
Jason:
[12:21] Well, I'll be at the Marlboro Show near Boston in January and then, I think we move on to Denver later, a couple weeks after that, and then Edison in the greater Chicago, northern New Jersey, neck of the woods, and then Atlanta.
And then I'll be in Dallas as well. So I'll be at least kind of in part of that neck of the woods.
Marvin:
[12:48] Got it. of the shows in the upper Midwest.
Jason:
[12:51] I'm not this year. No, I was I was at some of them last year and and uh, and I won't be there this year Yeah, got it.
Marvin:
[13:00] And ed, how about you?
Ed:
[13:03] Uh, i'll be at the marlboro show i'll be at the denver show this is the fly fishing show uh the uh, edison new jersey and i'll be at the uh, atlanta show And, I think that that will be what I do this year.
I'm not going to do all of the shows which I typically do so first four shows Got it.
Marvin:
[13:26] And how about you Mac? How many miles you're gonna put on the Subaru this season?
Mac:
[13:31] I Think that for sure I'm doing Edison in Denver and Atlanta and Pleasanton, California and there's a chance I might do you know, I still might do Bellevue and in Marlborough and Lancaster, because I've got some messages here to find out.
I'm just not sure on the other ones yet for sure, but I know I'm doing those four, and those will have that all-day class that Gary and I do with those, and that's the ones he wanted to shoot for this year.
But there's a chance I might do those other ones too.
Marvin:
[14:01] Got it. You gonna have your big jug of red wine?
Mac:
[14:05] No, I don't know how much I'm gonna drive up there again. We might fly again. I don't know.
We might fly, because it's pretty long when you get done, like at Edison, four days and then drive back that night.
That's kind of getting old. That's a long drive through the night.
Marvin:
[14:21] Yeah. It's a horrible interstate, too. But, well, listen, guys, I know you're kind of breaking up and going to your separate corners and heading back to Colorado and North Carolina and all that kind of good stuff.
I really appreciate you carving some time out. I'm glad we were able to solve all the tech issues, and I look forward to seeing all you guys really soon.
Intro:
[14:39] Well folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you, and hopefully some of their tips help you with your fall fishing.
Tight lines, everybody.