Transcript: PODCAST INTERVIEW: Andy Weiner of Reeling in Serenity
Transcript
Intro:
[0:04] Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly.
On this episode, our friend Andy Weiner returns to update us on his fly fishing journey and to tell us about his new role as president of Reeling and Serenity, an organization that uses fly fishing to support folks on their sobriety journey.
I think you're really going to enjoy this one.
But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items.
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Now on to our interview.
Marvin:
[1:13] Well, Andy, welcome back to the Articulate Fly.
Andy:
[1:16] Thank you very much. Great to talk to you again.
Marvin:
[1:18] Yeah, it's been a while. I mean, I think we were trying to figure this out a few days ago, and I think the last time I saw you was the last pre-COVID fly-fishing show in Denver.
Andy:
[1:31] I think that was 2019, I expect.
Marvin:
[1:33] Yeah, something like that. So how has the water been treating you?
Andy:
[1:38] Um, it has been treating me pretty well, all things considered.
Um, you know, we spoke the other day about my trip to Bend, which was very nice, and at the night fishing, back in September, I took my girlfriend, who is taking up the fort, and she's in the unfortunate position of having me as her teacher, but she's very, very eager and very game, and we went to the Bitterroot Valley, and also, um, it's in Idaho, in the the Hailey Sun River area, and just had a really, really fun time.
And every time that she gets to be out on the water, it draws her more and more to it.
[2:19] The funniest thing is, I fished in the same area in the Bitterroot Valley a couple of years before that, and in looking forward to taking her fishing, there's a particular spot where I had such great success.
And when you're taking somebody, you always think to a spot that you've done well, and you have it in your mind, and you finally get there.
And when we crossed the bridge to look down at the hole where we were going to take her, there was a moose standing in our pool.
So, I told her, we're not going to sit in that pool right now.
We will sit elsewhere, and then we'll see if we get to follow that moose into where he was standing. And we did.
And I caught a couple of fish there, but she just had such a great time, so I look forward to taking a lot more trips with her in the future.
Marvin:
[3:08] Yeah, that's awesome. And, you know, it's kind of funny when I was preparing the questions for this interview.
It's almost been exactly four years since you were first on the podcast back in the dark ages for me. And, you know, the great thing is Down by the River has achieved an important milestone in those four years. You want to share that with our listeners?
Andy:
[3:27] You, Sure. My real job is working in publishing, and I've worked in publishing for over 40 years, and so I have sort of a contextual idea of what a successful book is.
And soon, hopefully this year, the book will have sold 15,000 net copies, which to me is just a really great milestone.
I know that when the book was published, some of the reps who were selling to bookstores conveyed to me that their buyers said, well, there aren't a lot of people who buy books for kids about fishing.
And I was really happy to prove them wrong. I think it's been a really terrific audience for it.
Marvin:
[4:09] Yeah, that's pretty powerful. I mean, because, you know, fly fishing is niche and kids book and some fly fishing is even nichier, right?
It's absolutely true. Yeah.
You know, I assume, I know, you know, four years ago, the book was being used as a fundraising or an outreach vehicle for conservation and other groups.
I assume that's still the case. You want to let folks know kind of who you've worked with and who you're working with to kind of use the book to support the cause that they care about? Yeah.
Andy:
[4:38] You know, my background, the one year I didn't work in publishing, I worked for a nonprofit It's called California Trout, a great conservation organization here in San Francisco.
And I used some of my publishing experience to use books as thank you gifts for contributions.
So, it was a natural progression to use my book as cool fundraising for nonprofits.
The organization I probably work most with is Casting for Recovery.
I got to meet some of the people with the organization, have had my book included in their online auction, but also have worked.
A good deal of time in their booths at different stops of the fly fishing show, both in Denver, Pleasanton here in California, actually up in Lynwood, Washington as well.
It's been kind of startling to me with the copies that they've sold online in the auction, what the selling price was for several of them, over $100.
I know it has everything to do with the organization rather than the book, but it's really gratifying that people were so excited to bid.
And I've worked with the Mayfly Project, both in the United States and the UK, another great organization that works with lobster kids.
[6:04] Ailing Waters Fly Fishing donated some books, have some books that are going to be in an auction later this year.
There's an organization called Forever Are Rivers, which is a new organization on my radar, and they basically celebrate rivers, work to preserve them, and they've done several giveaways with different items, including my book.
And one of the original ones was Tadahuchi Riverkeeper, which is the organization that my friend, Becca Klein, who's also the executive director of Reeling and Serenity, which we'll talk about.
She was their development director, and he managed to sell two copies for $2,500, and it had everything to do with Becca and her salesmanship, rather than the book.
But she got people really pumped up about it, and that's an exciting story for me.
Marvin:
[6:57] Yeah, absolutely. And so if one of my listeners wanted to partner with you for their cause, you know, what should they do?
Andy:
[7:04] Um, they can contact me directly. Um, I'll tell you the email address now. We can...
We'll see it at the end of the conversation, but it's A-X-W-E-I-M-E-R-A-X-Winer at gmail.com, and anyone is welcome to reach out. I really...
I love to donate copies and to do my part to help nonprofits that are helping people, the environment. So yeah, I would encourage people to contact me.
Marvin:
[7:38] Yeah, and we'll hit that again at the end of the interview, but also I'll drop it in the show notes for you.
Great. Yeah, you know, and it's interesting, Andy, because I can remember back to when we first spoke, you know, gosh, four years ago now, that you, you know, had this phenomenal journey kind of building out this network as you were promoting the book.
And I was kind of curious if you kind of tell us, I mean, I've seen you in the last four years. I mean, you've met and touched a lot of people in the community.
You want to tell us a little bit about that journey?
Andy:
[8:09] Yeah, I would love to. It had a lot to do with the fact that publishing has changed a lot in the last probably five to ten years.
Publishers used to do most of the promotion for a book.
Book, but as sales have sort of changed and marketing has changed, a lot of that burden falls on the author of a book to do the outreach for their book.
And I had the good fortune to have some authors who I know who taught me a lot about how to do that, how to use social media in particular, and I would say that LinkedIn and Instagram have been the two tools I've used the most.
And when I started using LinkedIn, I guess, you know, prior to the book being published, I probably had about 200 connections with people I knew.
And then I began outreach to people in the fly fishing industry, fly fishing manufacturing, retail shops, conservation organizations, environmental education professionals.
[9:15] And at this point, I have over 6,000 connections and use it as a platform to promote the book and reeling in Serenity quite a bit.
And the other thing I use is Instagram, where I've reached out to a lot of the social media personalities, people who are brand ambassadors or people who are just passionate about the sport and who share that with their audience. You, I've just heard of cold-called people on Instagram and I asked if I could send a copy of the book, asked if I could count on them to promote the book if they liked it, and the support that I've gotten primarily through Instagram for that kind of promotion has been so gratifying and people have been so kind and so generous.
And beyond the connection of people promoting the book for me, I've made really, really good friends who have been very supportive of me, and I hope I'm being equally supportive of them as well.
But it's a phenomenal group of people.
Marvin:
[10:18] Yeah, it's pretty amazing, I mean, because that's how you found me.
I mean, you literally just out of the blue, you just reached out to me, I think on LinkedIn.
And so, you know, the interesting thing about that is not only have you kind of grown this network, but you've got a new path in the community, and you're now, relatively recent position for you as the president of Reeling and Serenity and you know for our listeners that aren't familiar, can you tell us a little bit about the organization and why we need it?
Andy:
[10:44] Sure, absolutely. Reeling and Serenity is an organization that's built on the same model as organizations like Casting for Recovery, which works with women who have breast cancer, or Reel Recovery, which works with men with cancer, Project Healing Water that works with the veterans, and there are quite a few other organizations.
And Reeling in Serenity works with sober anglers who are in recovery and takes them on free fly fishing retreats at no cost to them—that's what free means, I guess—and we've done various kinds of outreach to get people to come and participate.
[11:28] And we have volunteers who work with them, both for learning a little bit about the sport and then taking them out fishing.
As you and I had talked about the other day, so much of the promotion of fly fishing and outdoor sports in general connects fun of the activity, whether it's fly fishing or biking or sailing, whatever, with going in alcoholic beverage while you're doing it or after you're doing it.
And we understand that fly-fishing is one of the great healing activities and we wanted to provide a safe space for people who are sober and working in their sobriety to be in an environment where there isn't the pressure to partake in alcohol or other substances and then to enjoy that experience and that setting in nature, standing in a river, and, you know, finding the comfort and the solace of that, and maybe catch a fish.
Marvin:
[12:35] Yeah, and so what attracted you to the organization? I mean, you know, the mission is compelling, but what kind of drew you in?
Andy:
[12:42] I have a back story in my family of a father who was an alcoholic, very serious alcoholic, and he was also my fishing buddy.
And just before I was a teenager, my father's drinking came to a head, and he almost died and hit rock bottom, and then he became sober when I was 13 years old.
And when he died, that's six years ago now, he was 47 years sober.
And he was a writer who produced books for the recovery market, which have cut millions and millions of people. And he is one of my heroes and one of my inspirations.
[13:29] One of the people who I reached out to on LinkedIn is a woman named Becca Klein.
And Becca is the, I think I mentioned the development director at Patahoochee Riverkeeper, and the next thing between the two of us, as I mentioned, I donated a couple of books to her, but I was reading a copy of a now sadly defunct blog-picturing magazine called Dunn Magazine that Jen Ripple produced, and it was dedicated primarily to an email fly angler audience.
And I had an issue of the magazine, and as I was leaking through and reading the articles, there was a very compelling article with a lot of photographs of a group of women who had taken a fly fishing retreat to work their sobriety.
And all of the photographs were taken from behind, their faces were covered to respect the anonymity of the women who were participating.
[14:29] And in the center of the article was a photograph of a woman with one of the first similar recovery books that people read called, A Day at a Time, and the book happens to be written by my father.
And it was an extraordinary experience to see that image. It brought me to tears.
I posted about it on social media, and Becca reached out to me.
We had connected on Instagram, and she said, I just wanted to let you know that that photograph of me behind that book.
[15:03] And it just made our bond that much stronger. And Becca was one of the people who had organized that retreat.
[15:16] And she formalized that process by creating a nonprofit called what was then called Reeling in Recovery. We've now changed her name to Reeling in Serenity.
And as she began the process of going through the steps to make it a true nonprofit of 501c3, she was building her board and her staff and reached out to me and invited me to participate, knowing that I had that back story of alcoholism in my family.
And Becca is an extraordinary person who works for...at Oji Riverkeeper.
She runs a program called All Is Fit three times a year, where she brings in something like 35 kids and take some fishing guides and volunteers from all over the country.
She's now running Reeling in Serenity and sadly she's suffering from stage 4 metastatic breast cancer and she's very public about it and it's during her battle and she's tough as hell and I have faith that she's going to beat it, but she's extraordinary and the things that he accomplishes while undergoing chemotherapy and it's superhuman, honestly.
Marvin:
[16:29] Yeah, that's a really incredible story and you kind of touched on this a few minutes ago, Andy.
You know, there are all of these organizations that use fly fishing as a vehicle for healing and I was kind of curious on kind of your thoughts about what it is you think about fly fishing that makes it such a powerful tool.
Andy:
[16:48] I think the great thing about fly fishing is that when you're participating in it, pretty much everything fades away, except for what you're focusing on while you're fishing.
Those places that we go to fly fish are almost exclusively really beautiful, beautiful places.
But more than I think any other kind of fishing, there is the moment-to-moment focus on casting a fly, reading the water, observing where you are, and always that hope that on that very next cast, you're going to catch a fish, or you're maybe going to catch a fish.
I think you're always very, very hopeful about that.
[17:38] And standing in a river or being in a boat, in that environment, I think it really just wipes all of the stress out of your mind, at least on the second day of the vacation.
First day, maybe it takes a little bit of time to clear that out.
But there have been times in my life where I don't think there's anything I could of youth more than a day fishing and it never never fails me and it makes us feel so much better.
And you know if we do it in a community with other people I think that's a great boost as well because we can share that passion and share those stories that I think are a great part of life fishing as well.
Marvin:
[18:24] Yeah, I guess what is it I guess John Graak has that that quote in one of his books that like the worse the problem is you're dealing with, the longer your fishing trip should be.
Exactly, exactly. So you touched on the retreats earlier. Can you share with our listeners kind of what a typical reeling and serenity retreat Looks like.
Andy:
[18:44] Um, we try to include a little bit about recovery, a little bit of a meeting, but not a formal meeting like an AA meeting.
People address their sobriety and pursuit in different ways, and we don't want to force a particular practice on somebody, but there is a conversation about why everybody is there and what being on a river and with fly fishing can offer to them.
And then, there's somebody who does a little bit of instruction about knot tying, a little bit of entomology about the life cycle of the bugs and the animals that it feeds on, little casting lessons so people have some familiarity with a rod and a line and how you're going to cast that line.
And then, there are volunteers, one for each participant, to aid them to be comfortable in the water, lead them to a spot where, hopefully, they'll catch a fish.
[19:50] And then, at the end of the day, there's sort of a recap. And we put together a manual for participants, and this is one of the great stories to me.
When you're starting a nonprofit and you're starting a program like this, there's material that you need to create, and we're not an organization of writers and creators like that.
And I reached out to some of my friends at Casting for Recovery, and I asked if by any chance they had some material that they could share with us that we could use as sort of the basis for the material that we gave to our volunteers and to our participants.
And they provided several documents that basically saved us months of writing and preparation.
It was incredibly generous and, you know, it speaks to the kind of people who work at an organization like Asking for Recovery, that they aim to help people.
They know that different organizations have different roles and we're so grateful for that from them.
Marvin:
[20:55] Yeah, and so is the format like come in on a Friday night start the education process process, fish all day Saturday and go home on Sunday, or is it kind of a one day thing?
Andy:
[21:06] Right now, it's a one-day thing, and we've talked to some people about doing overnight retreats.
You know, the challenge is that we're a very small organization, and we have a very lean budget, and we're trying to keep it that way.
All of our staff and board are volunteers, and everybody has responsibilities for a job where they earn their living.
So, everything that they do comes out of their family time and out of their work time.
And at this point, a one-day retreat is the best way to use people's time.
I talk to a lot of people around the country who are involved in the fly fishing industry who are eager to support the work that we're doing and who are connected with a resort or have a house where they can host people.
And I think within the next year or so, we probably will have the kind of overnight and multi-day retreats and we look forward to that.
Marvin:
[22:04] Got it. And you know, what do you do kind of, you know, the day on the water is great, but how do you support participants when they're off the water?
Andy:
[22:13] Yeah, you know, we're working on that. We do have a Facebook private group where people can comment and share thoughts.
And part of what we leave them with, we do You have some information about recovery, um, for the recovery organization and hopefully, you know, the next year when we repeat a retreat—it's kind of hard to say, repeat a retreat—um, they will join us again and continue to grow in their fly fishing and continue to grow in their recovery.
Um, and we are trying to give everybody some fly fishing tools when they leave.
We were one of the very fortunate recipients this year of the Tiathon fly-tying volunteer organization where people all over the country tie flies, which they donate, and each year the Tiathon group gives a third of the flies to three different organizations.
And we were just really, really excited to be named one of the three recipients this year.
Actually came from a friend who is a friend of a bookselling friend of mine and he told me about Cyathon, invited me to nominate ourselves and we were really thrilled to be chosen.
Marvin:
[23:37] Yeah that's really neat and you know where does someone Andy have to be on their recovery journey in order to participate in the program.
Andy:
[24:01] And hopefully that sobriety continues for years and years and years.
Marvin:
[24:07] Got it. And if someone wants to volunteer with Reliance Serenity, do they need to be sober?
Andy:
[24:13] They don't need to be sober. We do have a strict policy that there is no alcohol, no drugs, no vaping, no cigarettes even at our retreats.
We want to keep all substances away from the participants, and that's a really strict rule that we have.
Marvin:
[24:31] Got it. And if someone, you know, isn't close enough to kind of help with one of your retreats, how, you know, are there other ways that they can support the organization?
Andy:
[24:39] Absolutely. You know, actually, it's sort of unlimited how many things people could do for us. And the first thing I think for a nonprofit is always going to be a financial contribution.
And, you know, we would accept contribution of $10 and we would accept contribution of $10,000. dollars.
We have, as I said, very lean budgets. Nobody gets compensated for their work with the organization.
You know, it takes a good amount of money to put on one of the retreats. You have insurance.
You have to be well insured for something like this.
So, financial contributions are always welcome.
[25:21] And spreading the word that we exist, letting people know in general that we're doing this work, or if you know somebody specifically who you feel would benefit from participating, we would love for people to...for, the work to the people.
And we have a benefit auction coming up this year, and we would love gift and kind donations, which could be fly rods, flies, vacation lodging, art, jewelry.
I mean, it's really unlimited what people can contribute to our auction.
And we're going to host that in September, which is National Recovery Month.
And basically, all contributions to Reeling and Serenity are tax-deductible to the full extensive of the law.
So whether it's a gas donation or an item, you'll get a receipt for that contribution.
But yeah, we just want people to understand that we're out here doing this work.
If people are interested in being on our board, we would love to talk to people about that.
[26:38] And it's amazing how generous people have been, both with financial contributions and with the in-kind donations.
For the auction, I think there were three people who were making fly rods for me, personally, to contribute.
I've had, I think, seven or eight pieces of art donated.
We're going to have a really fun item, actually, from my book.
The art from the book has never been printed, so the artist, April Chu, who did the illustrations for the book, is going to have some of the clay print created, and she'll sign them, and I will sign them, and this will be part of the auction as well.
I might even bid on that myself, because I don't have a piece of art from the book.
Marvin:
[27:23] Yeah, that's super cool. So if someone wanted to make a donation, what's the best way for them to get in touch with the organization?
Andy:
[27:32] Um, on our website, Reeling in Serenity, there's a link which will take you to the email address info at reelinginserenity.org, and, um, basically any questions that you have about the organization you can address that email and it can be a contribution.
It can be questions about, um, participating, um, for any questions you might have.
And again, anybody can reach out to me at the email address that I gave you at the beginning and which we'll have at the end as well.
I love hearing from people. I think it's something we haven't talked about that brought to mind is our experience at Life is in Shows, which we have exhibited, has been really extraordinary.
[28:22] It's a personal kind of condition that we're dealing with, and when you're in a public space and you're explaining to somebody who's the set of politicians what the mission of the organization is, I'm not sure that any of us had an expectation of what the conversations would be with people who were just walking by our booth.
Experience and the experience of the others has been really extraordinary.
The openness that people have shown, the stories that they're sharing with us of themselves, of family members, it's incredibly moving, and it just sort of reminds us how important the work we're doing is that people understand why we're doing it, and they want us to be out there to help people.
And the stories that I was told at the Pleasanton show, the fly-fishing show, several times brought me to tears, and the person who was speaking with me was in tears, as well—a very intimate experience to have in a public space.
Um, but it's, it's a really tremendous experience as well.
Marvin:
[29:42] Yeah. I mean, I, I think it's interesting, Andy, cause I always think that the fly fishing community is a phenomenally open community and they're very giving.
Um, and it's always kind of amazed me, not at that level, but it's always amazing.
Kind of, you know, if you, um, I guess for lack of a better word, put the time in to connect with other people and kind of be present, um, kind of what happens. Yes.
Andy:
[30:07] Absolutely.
Marvin:
[30:08] Yeah. And so, do you have any other events in addition to your charity auction that are kind of on the horizon? I know you've got a kind of a long planning horizon on the retreats that you want to share folks.
Andy:
[30:20] We have another retreat. Actually, I'll start with the fact that our first retreat was back in September of last year.
And this year, we have had three additional retreats.
And our fourth this year is going to be in Helen, Georgia, June 17th.
And it's going to be co-sponsored by Unicoi Outfitters, and folks are going to be fishing for blackfish and stripers, which sounds really exciting.
So we're looking for more participants. I think we have room for a couple more people and We're always looking for volunteers that Sure, never can have enough volunteers to be there with people and to be instructors And I know that we're actually looking for a photographer for that event as well So if anyone is interested again, you can email info at reeling and serenity org and let the folks know that That's what you're interested in and they'll get back to you very quickly quickly.
Marvin:
[31:17] Got it. Go ahead.
Andy:
[31:19] I was going to say, we're hoping to put together a retreat in Colorado in September as well.
And we're finding it a little challenging because it ends up that if you have guides, professional guides in Colorado, I think it is that you have to have professional guides unless you're on private property.
And so we're trying to find a place to do that, and we're trying to put together the volunteers and the participants in a place where none of our staff or board live.
So that's talent, but we have some people out there that we know, and we're going to try to make that happen.
And we're certainly going to repeat the retreats that we did this year in 2024 and hopefully add to that as well.
Marvin:
[32:14] Very, very neat. And Andy, before I let you go this evening, is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners?
Andy:
[32:22] Yeah, there was a film I saw recently that Proud Unlimited was the producer of the film, I believe, and it's getting a lot of attention both on LinkedIn, on Instagram, in Proud Unlimited social media, and the name of the film is The Studio, and you can find it on YouTube.
I think if you just Google it, search for The Studio, or if you go to the Proud Unlimited page, And it's a film about a man from Bloomington, Minnesota, his name, I wrote it down so I would remember, is Scott Simmons.
And it's a film about fishing with his son, fly fishing with his son, and how important fly fishing has been to him in exactly the kind of healing that we're talking about.
12-minute film and it's beautifully made and it's joyous and everyone I've mentioned it to has watched it. I watched it with my girlfriend.
It is so uplifting and it speaks to what art support offers to people.
I've actually connected with Scott on Instagram because that's the kind of person I am. I reach out to people and he's such a cool guy and I encourage people to to look for it at the studio.
Marvin:
[33:43] Yeah, and I'll be sure to drop that in the show notes too.
Andy:
[33:47] Thank you.
Marvin:
[33:48] Oh, you bet. And so, you know, to go back to Down by the River, if someone wanted to grab a copy, what's the best way to track it down and buy one?
Andy:
[33:59] Basically, any bookstore in the country can get a copy. If they don't have them stocked, they can easily order it.
As long as you know the title and my name.
It's readily available on Amazon.com. I'm always somebody who's going to encourage people to stop at their local independent bookstore.
A number of fly shops carry it, and they can order it as well.
And it's funny, the way that books work online, almost every major retailer has a book section on their website, whether it's Target or Walmart, and the book can be found on those websites as well and order it from from those retailers.
And they can also just email me and I can sell them a signed copy for a discount.
I also am happy for anybody who's looking to retail the book to get in touch and I like to sell signed copies to retailers as well.
Marvin:
[34:56] Got it. And if someone wanted to learn more about about reeling in serenity and follow its progress, where should they go?
Andy:
[35:02] You know, our main website is reelinginserenity.org.
We have an Instagram page, and it's at Reeling in Serenity.
We're on Facebook. I think if you just search Reeling in Serenity, you'd find us.
We have a LinkedIn page. I sort of manage that one.
And we're just going to keep updating what we're doing. And a lot of what we do on Instagram in particular is to do posts about sobriety, posts about fly fishing, and some of it's inspiring, some of it's funny, and all of it is heartfelt, that's for sure.
Marvin:
[35:44] Got it, and you know, if you want to repeat your email address and also just share with folks, I'm sure you're, we know you're on Instagram, if you want to share kind of the best way for folks to follow your adventures on and off the water.
Andy:
[35:55] Sure. The email address again is A-X-W-E-I-N-C-R. It's N-S-N-A-N-C.
That's email.com. AXWeiner.com.
My Instagram is my name. So it's at WeinerAndy.
It's reversed because there's an Andy Weiner out there already.
And I am on LinkedIn. I love to be contacted on LinkedIn.
And I do have a website for the book specifically. And it's downbytheriverbook.com.
And there's a contact link there as well.
Marvin:
[36:35] Got it. Well, Andy, I appreciate you spending some time with me and hopefully our paths will cross again soon at a show or maybe even better on the water.
Andy:
[36:44] That would be great. And I just remembered to thank you again for loaning me your bear spray in Montana, which thankfully I didn't have to use.
It was nice to have it on my hip just in case I needed it. So thank you for that. And thank you for having me on again. I appreciate it.
Marvin:
[37:01] Oh, you bet. And that makes me want to give a shout out to the folks at Blue Ribbon in West Yellowstone. They do a great thing, right? Because you can't fly with bear spray.
And So they basically have a wine cellar of cans of bear spray with your name on it. And so you literally just call ahead and tell them your name and it'll be sitting for you on the counter when you go to buy your license and your flies.
Andy:
[37:22] Yep, and it was great. They actually taught me how to use it because who would know how to use a bear spray if you've never used it before?
Marvin:
[37:29] Yeah, well, I'm glad you didn't have to use it. That would make at least an interesting interview story, but probably not so good.
Andy:
[37:35] Yeah, but next time we talk, Tell you the better stories next time we talk fair enough.
Marvin:
[37:40] We'll listen. Have a great evening Thank you.
Andy:
[37:43] Appreciate it, Marvin.
Intro:
[37:45] Good night Well folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you again If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcast your of your choice Tight lines, everybody.